$2 NLHE Full Ring: Folding AA to turn shove - correct or not?

LD1977

LD1977

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UTG: $2.08
UTG+1: $1.32
UTG+2: $0.71
Hero (MP1): $2.00
MP2: $1.26
CO: $2.00
BTN: $5.82
SB: $2.05
BB: $2.00

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is MP1 with A :club: A :heart:
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, MP2 calls $0.08, 1 fold, BTN calls $0.08, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.27) 3 :heart: T :spade: 5 :diamond: (3 players)
Hero bets $0.13, MP2 calls $0.13, BTN folds

Turn: ($0.53) 6 :heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $0.26, MP2 raises to $1.05 all in, Hero folds

MP2 is 22 / 9 / 1.9 (24%) over 423 hands

I folded turn since he is not very aggressive and I have one pair :D correct?
 
RodneyC86

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I'd fold too, villains who play 22/9 just play bingo flop a lot. He HAS something better than a pair. :D

Good play imo, for 2nl anyway.

NVM, just realized he is not a full stack.

In this case, get it all in, you can't discount he's playing top pair or overpair like this and you're getting more than 2 to 1 odds to call.

against a 2 pair, you're still good a small bit less than 20% of the time
Do not the relativelye dry board though, even for a 22/9, only 56 is the realistic 2 pair there.

hats off to him if he has a set
 
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Yoshimiii

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Bet more on flop, turn. I would call the turn. He doesn't have 4/7. He doesn't have Two pair, so the hands he has are sets, J/J, A/10, K/10, Q/Q (unlikely). Also he is short-stacked and this is 2nl.

I think you have to call with pot odds. Folding seems like a mistake.
 
LD1977

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I didn't think betting more on the flop/turn would do much here than fold him out except if he has 2 pairs+... half pot seems right on this board to keep some random suited hand which hit a pair (or a gutshot) in. I planned to just 3-barrel for value.

This looks like a set that hated that flush draw that appeared on the turn.

Looking at pot odds (approximately 2:1):
- it seems that they are not enough against a set (I have 2 outs)
- if he has 2 pairs, I have 8 outs (2*Ace, 6*whatever card he doesn't have)... still not enough

Basically, if I call then I think I am ahead, no?
 
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Yoshimiii

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LD1977 said:
I didn't think betting more on the flop/turn would do much here than fold him out except if he has 2 pairs+... half pot seems right on this board to keep some random suited hand which hit a pair (or a gutshot) in. I planned to just 3-barrel for value.

This looks like a set that hated that flush draw that appeared on the turn.
Click to expand...

Whatever villains holding he doesn't care about us having the flush draw-
1. Villain is probably not even thinking about what we have as it's 2nl
2. Stack-Pot ratio means that the flush draw isn't an issue.
3. Not many combos of flushes that we have that 3 bet pre-flop.
4. Flush draw makes a call for us more lucrative as he can have T/X of hearts, in which case we should call.

It could be a set as he limps pre-flop then calls but I still don't think you should fold, if villain has Top pair or J/J he will probably still call. Also he is a 22/9, there aren't any suited hands/gutshots that he has that calls flop.

Also we aren't even looking to hit one of our outs, he never should have two pair here. No reason to think you're behind, only sets that beat you, and if you're folding A/A on this board here you become really exploitable.
 
WVHillbilly

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Bigger bets on flop and turn. 1/2 pot here is such a waste.
 
LD1977

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Yoshimii :D

3. There was no 3-bet, just a normal raise from MP
4. I meant that he has a set that decided to push since he fears a FD, not that he has a FD :D

WVHillbilly - What calls a bigger bet that I like? How big a bet do you think I can make that gets calls from random 1 pairs?
 
Yoshimiii

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LD1977 said:
Yoshimii :D

3. There was no 3-bet, just a normal raise from MP
4. I meant that he has a set that decided to push since he fears a FD, not that he has a FD :D

WVHillbilly - What calls a bigger bet that I like? How big a bet do you think I can make that gets calls from random 1 pairs?
Click to expand...

O yea wasn't a 3bet Oops. Can't be folding here even if you think it is likely he has a set I think. Unless of course you are extremely sure. It's 2nl!! lol, there has to be bigger leaks in your game than folding or calling A/A here as calling here is never a big mistake with A/A on these stakes.
 
WVHillbilly

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LD1977 said:
Yoshimii :D

3. There was no 3-bet, just a normal raise from MP
4. I meant that he has a set that decided to push since he fears a FD, not that he has a FD :D

WVHillbilly - What calls a bigger bet that I like?
Click to expand...
Draws. Pairs. Everything that calls 10 calls 18 here.

You have an issue and the sooner you get over it the better off you'll be. People at micro stakes suck! They call big bets with small hands. They call with bad odds. They call with random crap. They call. They call. They call. The way to exploit them is to make good hands and bet big. Save your 1/2 pot bets for when you have nothing or you're looking to draw cheaply yourself.

But. But. But. I won't be balanced and they'll know when I have a hand and when i don't, you say? No they won't you forgot the golden rule again. People at micro stakes suck! It's true.
 
lpmduarte

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I think in this situation, you should call, you made a 4 bet pre-flop i think, the player called but take a look on the board, i think he had a flush draw or maybe top pair based on player action, i strongly believe that he had top pair, the turn brings a card lower that T, so why not call? :)
 
LD1977

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WVHillbilly said:
Draws. Pairs. Everything that calls 10 calls 18 here.

You have an issue and the sooner you get over it the better off you'll be. People at micro stakes suck! They call big bets with small hands. They call with bad odds. They call with random crap. They call. They call. They call. The way to exploit them is to make good hands and bet big. Save your 1/2 pot bets for when you have nothing or you're looking to draw cheaply yourself.

But. But. But. I won't be balanced and they'll know when I have a hand and when i don't, you say? No they won't you forgot the golden rule again. People at micro stakes suck! It's true.
Click to expand...

You are correct but not entirely I think.

Thing is, some of them suck and some are just improving (I like to think I am one of the latter) and play 2NL since they are beginners or have a small BR (again, yours truly on both counts :p). Normally I watch everybody and take notes on big mistakes I see and then follow the notes. If I don't have notes, I look at their stats - aggro players get little credit for aggression, passives get much more.

Half pot gives gutshots (OESDs seems unlikely) bad odds, this favors me but keeps them in. I need to charge the maximum and I found that half pot keeps all garbage in the hand, while potting often chases it away.

So correct size is somewhere in between, but where exactly :confused: Eternal question, I guess it depends on the individual.

Yoshimiii - Yeah, I probably have lots of leaks, one that has cost me a LOT was mainly calling big raises (especially check raises)/All Ins from passives. I started thinking about ranges a lot more and my results seems to be improving a lot lately, of course it is hard to say if I am just on a heater or it is a substantial improvement.
 
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R

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I think that this guy could have been calling with Kh-xh hand, or a 4 card straight. He could also be doing it with a T4 or T7, thinking he has top pair, as poorer players tend to forget the idea of overpairs, especially if you haven't bet particularly aggressively.

Toss up... perhaps a question of BR here... if you can afford to find out, it might have been worth a call to see the end.
 
WVHillbilly

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LD1977 said:
You are correct but not entirely I think.

Thing is, some of them suck and some are just improving (I like to think I am one of the latter) and play 2NL since they are beginners or have a small BR (again, yours truly on both counts :p). Normally I watch everybody and take notes on big mistakes I see and then follow the notes. If I don't have notes, I look at their stats - aggro players get little credit for aggression, passives get much more.

Half pot gives gutshots (OESDs seems unlikely) bad odds, this favors me but keeps them in. I need to charge the maximum and I found that half pot keeps all garbage in the hand, while potting often chases it away.

So correct size is somewhere in between, but where exactly :confused: Eternal question, I guess it depends on the individual.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying all micro players suck to be a dick (hell I play micro stakes too and I suck). I'm saying it because it's true. Are there players who know how to fold? Of course. Are there players who take notes and adjust based of them? Sure. Should you concern yourself with these players? Not at all. Playing your hands based on the 2% who do these things makes no sense. Concentrate on the 98% and profit.
 
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S

swingro

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LD1977 said:
You are correct but not entirely I think.

Thing is, some of them suck and some are just improving (I like to think I am one of the latter) and play 2NL since they are beginners or have a small BR (again, yours truly on both counts :p). Normally I watch everybody and take notes on big mistakes I see and then follow the notes. If I don't have notes, I look at their stats - aggro players get little credit for aggression, passives get much more.

Half pot gives gutshots (OESDs seems unlikely) bad odds, this favors me but keeps them in. I need to charge the maximum and I found that half pot keeps all garbage in the hand, while potting often chases it away.

So correct size is somewhere in between, but where exactly :confused: Eternal question, I guess it depends on the individual.

Yoshimiii - Yeah, I probably have lots of leaks, one that has cost me a LOT was mainly calling big raises (especially check raises)/All Ins from passives. I started thinking about ranges a lot more and my results seems to be improving a lot lately, of course it is hard to say if I am just on a heater or it is a substantial improvement.
Click to expand...
Value bet harder. If he wants to call he will call no matter what size bet you use. He just sees his straight draw and that's all. 90 % of players at 2 NL are as bad as you can get and the regs are mostly bad TAGs.
Do not watch a hand from your point of view. At 2 NL villans do not care s...it of what you might have. They just see their hands and will call a shove on the flop with an OESD.
 
B

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bigger everywhere, honestly can't see folding here.
 
Aces2w1n

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LD1977 said:
Yoshimii :D

3. There was no 3-bet, just a normal raise from MP
4. I meant that he has a set that decided to push since he fears a FD, not that he has a FD :D

WVHillbilly - What calls a bigger bet that I like? How big a bet do you think I can make that gets calls from random 1 pairs?
Click to expand...

The thing about 2NL no ones fears anything, and since you have AA you should just be raising pot size bets the whole way and getting it in. Small % they'll have you beat but a huge percentage you'll have them crushed with TPTK or even AIR!! 2nl :)

When I asked about what I was doing wrong about 2NL it was really things like this!.. Thought they were nuts.

It's amazing what people try re-raising or calling with to take the pot down... 27not suited was the worst hand they tried frightening me off the pot
 
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