$2 NLHE Full Ring: Fold AKs Pre?

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ClubArrow77

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Party Poker - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Holdem (8 players)
Party Poker Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $2
BB: $2.98
UTG: $2
UTG+1 Hero: $4.23
MP: $0.69
MP+1: $0.65
CO: $2
BTN: $0.75

Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is UTG+1 and dealt :ks4: :as4:
UTG raises to $0.16, Hero folds, 5 folds, BB calls $0.14

Flop: ($0.33) :2s4: :kc4: :3c4: (2 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $0.16, BB raises to $0.32, UTG calls $0.16

Turn: ($0.97) :2s4: :kc4: :3c4: :3s4: (2 players)
BB bets $0.69, UTG calls $0.69

River: ($2.35) :2s4: :kc4: :3c4: :3s4: :9d4: (2 players)
BB bets $1.81 (All-in), UTG calls $0.83 (All-in)


Ok, this might have been a really stupid fold on my part and you guys are probably going to call me a stupid idiot who shouldn't ever play poker for doing this but here are my reasons for folding AKs pre.

I know AKs is a premium hand and pretty much the rarest. However, 3 hands ago, I stacked a person by shoving my KK against villain's Queens preflop. The hand right before, I had AKo and raised to 10c on the flop, got 2 callers, and overbet a one outer straight draw to take down the pot.

The villain to my right was UTG and had stats of around VPIP 24 and PFR 15 out of 46 hands. However, I had never seen villain open from UTG, especially with such a large raise (villain usually min bets or bets 3xBB). Due to the large raise, I put villain on Aces, Kings, or possibly AK, all of which either have me beat or splitting with. Since I know my raises will probably not get much respect (I showed my kings but not my AK), I felt that I would be an underdog to villains range UTG and decided to fold.

I also did not want to play AK because of the decision I felt I would put myself in. In this spot, I would probably 3bet villain and a 3 bet would most likely be met by a 4bet shove by villain. I do not want to race with AK which is only Ace high if I miss the flop.
 
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BlueNowhere

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It's 2NL, you are 8 handed and you can sefely presume everyone else at your table is a retard. Barring like villian running 2/2 over a decent amount of hands I am never ever ever folding this. Also his range is much wider than what you're giving him.
 
alaskabill

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It's 2NL, you are 8 handed and you can sefely presume everyone else at your table is a retard. Barring like villian running 2/2 over a decent amount of hands I am never ever ever folding this. Also his range is much wider than what you're giving him.

All of this. People will show up with all kinds of strange things in microstakes, random suited cards and weak aces will actually show up there a lot more often than you would expect.
 
Matt Vaughan

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It's 2NL, you are 8 handed and you can sefely presume everyone else at your table is a retard. Barring like villian running 2/2 over a decent amount of hands I am never ever ever folding this. Also his range is much wider than what you're giving him.
This.

In my experience in micros (okay, that's pretty much ALL I have experience in), people pay very little if any attention to their table position.

Depending on who else is likely to call at the table - do we have to 3-bet to stay in? I think I'd be okay flatting here, after this: https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-game-hand-analysis-50/4-nlhe-full-ring-3-betting-208743/

Not quite the same situation, but worth looking at what people said there, I think.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Also, just wondering, what did villain and the caller show?
 
Four Dogs

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I understand what you're saying but I really think this situation calls for a raise. I have a hard time believing that he's only showing AA, KK OR AK here. Yes, large preflop raises are often indicative of pocket pair but generally not aces or kings. Sure there are people that overbet these hands because they're afraid of getting stacked by a flopped set or 2 pair and they'd rather just take it down pf but in my experience the big bets are usually medium high pairs like Jacks or Queens or high aces like AK, AQ. One way to find out is to raise, the weaker holdings will usually just call. Aces and kings will put you in. You can fold if you like, personally I think I'd still call on the chance that he's getting silly with AQ or an under pair. I know you don't want to risk your stack on a flip but you just can't get to squeamish about one hand. If you played this scenario out 1000 times I think you'll find that you'll come out ahead. Also, you said something about your raises not getting respect? If you're right about that then the villains 4 Bet range is way bigger then AA-KK.
GL
 
Deco

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It's 2NL, you are 8 handed and you can sefely presume everyone else at your table is a retard. Barring like villian running 2/2 over a decent amount of hands I am never ever ever folding this.

lol this.
The raise sizing is a cause for concern but look at it this way if he does have AA there's only 1card in the deck thats going to get us stacked.

I flat.
 
bgomez89

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Never fold unless its a 3/3 who opens utg
 
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ClubArrow77

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result is UTG showed QQ and caller showed AKo. Can we assume that villain had a medium high pair like QQ or JJ, possibly AQ because he raised so big on the flop because I can see players open shove with aces with the hope of getting called in the micros.
 
JOEBOB69

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Well now just make a note that he raised 8x UTG with QQ.He prob will do this with TT,JJ also
 
sixpeppers

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Its a mathematical mistake to be folding this hand. There is no 100BB situation in which a 4x raise from any position would mean folding AKs. If his range is AA only you should still call because you can bluff successfully postflop. And given that his range is not AA only you should definitely call. You outsmarted yourself here.
 
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BlueNowhere

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Its a mathematical mistake to be folding this hand. There is no 100BB situation in which a 4x raise from any position would mean folding AKs. If his range is AA only you should still call because you can bluff successfully postflop. And given that his range is not AA only you should definitely call. You outsmarted yourself here.

First it was 8xbb. You do realise this is 2NL right? Just remind yourself of the first rule of micros.
 
bgomez89

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result is UTG showed QQ and caller showed AKo. Can we assume that villain had a medium high pair like QQ or JJ, possibly AQ because he raised so big on the flop because I can see players open shove with aces with the hope of getting called in the micros.
lolwat? It looks like UTG bets half pot and the other idiot minraised which is by no means a big raise
 
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doomasiggy

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Party Poker - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Holdem (8 players)
Party Poker Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $2
BB: $2.98
UTG: $2
UTG+1 Hero: $4.23
MP: $0.69
MP+1: $0.65
CO: $2
BTN: $0.75

Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is UTG+1 and dealt :ks4: :as4:
UTG raises to $0.16, Hero folds


3-bet pre. We've got blockers against AA and KK. Worst case, he has QQ and we're flipping, best case, he has AQs or AJs
 
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Aldito

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3-bet pre. We've got blockers against AA and KK. Worst case, he has QQ and we're flipping, best case, he has AQs or AJs

We have 2 blockers, not 8. QQ is definitely not the worst case scenario.
 
JOEBOB69

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Haveing AK here does cut the combos of AA to only 3 combos same as KK
Worst case is not QQ but we do cut the likely hood in half of villain haveing one of these 2 nut hands
 
c9h13no3

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I found a player nittier than Deco.
 
Deco

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I found a player nittier than Deco.

mirror.gif
 
c9h13no3

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If you're multi-accounting with ClubArrow that would explain a lot.
 
sixpeppers

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First it was 8xbb. You do realise this is 2NL right? Just remind yourself of the first rule of micros.

Yeah after seeing it is an 8 bb open there is some merit to folding. Its now a close spot and I don't hate it, but its a tough spot in which I still think a call pre is best, but I would probably muck AKo given your read.
 
Karkus77

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Yeah after seeing it is an 8 bb open there is some merit to folding. Its now a close spot and I don't hate it, but its a tough spot in which I still think a call pre is best, but I would probably muck AKo given your read.

no, just no
 
Matt Vaughan

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Doesn't the 8bb raise suggest incompetence? Someone correct me if that doesn't seem true. I like getting into pots with incompetent players though... Especially with strong hands.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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Yeah after seeing it is an 8 bb open there is some merit to folding. Its now a close spot and I don't hate it, but its a tough spot in which I still think a call pre is best, but I would probably muck AKo given your read.

lol its so not close, people 8x and fold to a 3 bet at these stakes.

imo 3 bet > call > fold
 
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