$2 NLHE Full Ring: Flop A Straight: Extracting Max Value

Winning Poker Network - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: $1.25
Hero (BTN): $1.64
SB: $2.22
BB: $1.00
UTG: $1.13
UTG+1: $1.14
UTG+2: $0.92
MP: $0.75
MP+1: $0.99

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.03) Hero has 8:spade: J:heart:

fold, fold, UTG+2 calls $0.02, fold, MP+1 calls $0.02, fold, Hero calls $0.02, SB calls $0.01, BB checks

Flop: ($0.10, 5 players) T:club: 9:diamond: 7:diamond:
SB checks, BB bets $0.06, UTG+2 calls $0.06, MP+1 calls $0.06, Hero calls $0.06, SB calls $0.06

Turn: ($0.40, 5 players) Q:heart:
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 bets $0.02, fold, Hero raises to $0.12, SB calls $0.12, fold, UTG+2 calls $0.10

River: ($0.76, 3 players) 4:heart:
SB checks, UTG+2 checks, Hero bets $0.60, fold, fold

Hero wins $0.73

Similar concept as with my other thread. I flopped a straight and wanted to slow play the hand enough to try and suck out value on the river. Did I play this hand right? Was my river bet too large or a good size to either get fold equity or good value if someone called?

I would have raised that flop no question. You had a bet and 2 calls before you on a draw heavy board. I think most of those players would have stuck around, as evidenced on the turn.

I also think the turn bet was too low.

By not getting more chips in the middle before the river, you really don't have a way to extract any value. You bet near pot and players with a 10 or a 7 weren't about to call anymore.

Your makung money off of people that want to call...so pet the call id raise to probably 20 cents on flop prolly bet 15 on turn and then 45 to make it look like a missed draw and even if they dont see that it looks like a bluff they could still call you

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk 2

Your betting too small on flop and turn.

slow playing is not good. You want to inflate the pot and make them pay for their draws.


On the turn you bet .12 cents??? why? the pot is already 40 cents and you bet like 12 cents and then you pot river??

The river is out, they have missed and now you decide to extract value?




Ok lemme break it down:

Reraise flop to inflate pot and extract value.The pot is 5 way and you flat???????? crazy. Bet turn wayyy bigger to allow for a potential river shove although when the Q comes out on the turn jk is now the new nuts but anyways.


your giving them good prices to suck out on you. you are not extracting value and you are placing your bets on the wrong streets.


Focus on your bet sizing.



Edit: what are you going to do in a 5 way pot when a J hits on the river? A jack that you let them see for only 12 cents.

^ or even a diamond on the river





Agree with what others are saying, you need to bet the flop, preferably a nice size bet to really charge all the other straight draws/flush draws/ pair type hands. Also remember that each bet has a multiplied effect on later streets, if you don't bet much until the river then you can only win a much smaller pot. However if you bet the flop it makes a much bigger pot on the turn which allows you to make a bigger bet on the turn which allows you to get it in by the river.

vinylspiros said:

The river is out, they have missed and now you decide to extract value?

Click to expand...

Ah, I see your point. Thanks for your post. I guess I didn't think that they either have it or they don't by the time we reach the river so the value is already extracted at that point.

I'm actually spending my study time on table image and bet sizing as we speak so I definitely know that's a leak in my game right now.

I had established a pretty TAG table image there are was getting a lot of folds on my preflop raises prior to this hand so I was trying to "sneak one past them", so to speak. I also see your point here though: Naturally with a 5 way pot at least two of them are calling any raise and coming along for the ride.

Thanks again.

loafes said:

^ or even a diamond on the river





Agree with what others are saying, you need to bet the flop, preferably a nice size bet to really charge all the other straight draws/flush draws/ pair type hands. Also remember that each bet has a multiplied effect on later streets, if you don't bet much until the river then you can only win a much smaller pot. However if you bet the flop it makes a much bigger pot on the turn which allows you to make a bigger bet on the turn which allows you to get it in by the river.

Click to expand...

Thank you, as well.

yeah the flush draw would have been what concerned, gotta assume atleast 1 of the 5 would have been on it...

simple hand. Raise the flop to around .32, turn I bet around 2/3 to 3/4 depending how many called your flop raise, 3/4 for more ppl, 2/3 for HU. At that point you set the pot up nicely to jam any non-diamond, non-king river.

You are not a TAG.

Raise the flop, for love of God. Raise enough so that when you get 2 callers you can jam the turn.

baudib1 said:

You are not a TAG.

Click to expand...

I'm playing 19/11 over my last 2,000 hands. How can you tell what someone is or isn't by viewing one hand they intentionally slow played?

TAGs don't:

1. Play 19/11
2. Limp the button
3. Slowplay

baudib1 said:

TAGs don't:

1. Play 19/11
2. Limp the button
3. Slowplay

Click to expand...

I think you're not understanding - I had to slow play the hand to get any action on it. Repeatedly, for over half an hour, those players were folding to any raise by myself and another player at the table.

If a TAG doesn't play 19/11 - what does he play?

ILIKEFISH31 said:

I think you're not understanding - I had to slow play the hand to get any action on it. Repeatedly, for over half an hour, those players were folding to any raise by myself and another player at the table.

If a TAG doesn't play 19/11 - what does he play?

Click to expand...

TAGs play around 17/15-22/19 on a full ring table. And it doesn't matter that they folded in previous hands. You hit a monster, get paid or have them fold and move on.

This whole hand was played badly.

Blobweird123 said:

TAGs play around 17/15-22/19 on a full ring table. And it doesn't matter that they folded in previous hands. You hit a monster, get paid or have them fold and move on.

This whole hand was played badly.

Click to expand...

Fair enough - I hear you.

Well, then this thread has been helpful. Next time I'm in this situation I'll raise, get one or two to call and then jam the turn.

ILIKEFISH31 said:

I think you're not understanding - I had to slow play the hand to get any action on it. Repeatedly, for over half an hour, those players were folding to any raise by myself and another player at the table.

If a TAG doesn't play 19/11 - what does he play?

Click to expand...

There's really no reason to ever slowplay a flopped straight. If you're not getting action then you must be at the nittiest .01/.02 table in history -- table select better.

The only reason to ever slowplay is if you just consume the board -- you have QQ on Q22r (even then, if you are playing optimally, you will get people to float you). When you flop a straight the nice thing is you block 0% of people's continuing range -- especially a straight on a two-tone board. People will have top pair, 2 pair, sets, combo draws and straight draws to put money in the pot with.

More than half the deck is a scare card that will either kill action or beat you -- don't slowplay flopped straights.

TAGs play 19/17 or so. 19/11 is passive by any definition at any stakes. I'd also guess that your 3-bet% is under 4%.

baudib1 said:

There's really no reason to ever slowplay a flopped straight. If you're not getting action then you must be at the nittiest .01/.02 table in history -- table select better.

The only reason to ever slowplay is if you just consume the board -- you have QQ on Q22r (even then, if you are playing optimally, you will get people to float you). When you flop a straight the nice thing is you block 0% of people's continuing range -- especially a straight on a two-tone board. People will have top pair, 2 pair, sets, combo draws and straight draws to put money in the pot with.

More than half the deck is a scare card that will either kill action or beat you -- don't slowplay flopped straights.

TAGs play 19/17 or so. 19/11 is passive by any definition at any stakes. I'd also guess that your 3-bet% is under 4%.

Click to expand...

+1

baudib1 said:

There's really no reason to ever slowplay a flopped straight. If you're not getting action then you must be at the nittiest .01/.02 table in history -- table select better.

The only reason to ever slowplay is if you just consume the board -- you have QQ on Q22r (even then, if you are playing optimally, you will get people to float you). When you flop a straight the nice thing is you block 0% of people's continuing range -- especially a straight on a two-tone board. People will have top pair, 2 pair, sets, combo draws and straight draws to put money in the pot with.

More than half the deck is a scare card that will either kill action or beat you -- don't slowplay flopped straights.

TAGs play 19/17 or so. 19/11 is passive by any definition at any stakes. I'd also guess that your 3-bet% is under 4%.

Click to expand...

I completely understand. Thanks again.

3-Bet% is about 6%. Should that be higher even at 2nl?

ILIKEFISH31 said:

I completely understand. Thanks again.

3-Bet% is about 6%. Should that be higher even at 2nl?

Click to expand...

My opinion is no because they just aren't folding enough so our 3bets should be mostly for pure value which is around a 5.7% range.

Blobweird123 said:

My opinion is no because they just aren't folding enough so our 3bets should be mostly for pure value which is around a 5.7% range.

Click to expand...

Sounds good. Thanks.

baudib1 said:

19/11 is passive by any definition at any stakes.

Click to expand...

In my most recent session I became a bit more aggressive but still finished up ~250 hands at 20/11. Even then - I probably lost value on several hands for raising too much preflop and I just don't see how much more aggressive I could have been.

Is it possible that I just have a small sample size? Should I almost definitely be raising more hands that I get involved in?

No, it is not possible that you have a small sample size. TAGs don't call or limp as much as you do preflop. If you are losing value because people are folding too much (I doubt this is the case incidentally) then raise more as a bluff.