$2 NLHE Full Ring: Could I have changed the outcome by playing differently?

F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 60/13/6

UTG has stats of 60/13//6 and I have only known them for one round, so no notes (but the stats speak for themselves :p). UTG+1 is a reg with stats of 18/7/1.5, FCB 60% and FvCB of 20%.

Poker Stars - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em (9 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $11.05
BB: $1.28
UTG: $3.51
UTG+1: $1.97
MP: $2.06
MP+1: $3.37
MP+2: $5
CO: $1.25
BTN Hero: $1.94

Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN and dealt :as4: :10d4:
UTG calls $0.02, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 2 folds, MP+2 raises to $0.08, CO folds, Hero calls $0.08, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.06, UTG+1 calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.35) :js4: :10h4: :9c4: (4 players)
UTG bets $0.08, UTG+1 calls $0.08, MP+2 folds

Time to fold?

Incidentally, is a FvCB stat of 20% too low?

 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Time to fold was preflop (unless you feel like raising).
 
J

J_Hardin25

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Ya I agree.. Gotta stick with the famous words of Ole T.J "raise or fold" and besides with that hand and the ranges you could be up against... You shoulda just got out of the way and waited for a better spot. It's always better to have missed a chance to win a pot, than to have forced the issue and went broke...
 
B

baudib1

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Way to dangerous a board to continue with 2nd pair.
 
F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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So because a reg is involved I should give it up pre-flop, even though I have position on them both?
 
TylerN

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the reg your describing is not good
 
F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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Is a FvFCB stat of 20% too low?
 
F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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So if I had 3bet instead of flatting, the reg might well have folded... thus isolating the fish.
 
F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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I am assuming that a reg and a nit are different. What sort of stats would you expect from a reg?
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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UTG+1 also limped along with a BAD player from EP. Not a reg.
 
bgomez89

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There's more players than reg,nit and fish

The few that I use to classify players are

Nits(10/8s)
TAGs/LAGs(vpip/pfr are always close together like 18/16 or 28/25 etc)
Bad regs(things like 18/7)
Fish(60/3 types)
Bullies(40/30s)
Maniacs(60/50 type players)
 
TylerN

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yes good regs are tags or lags. just look for vpip/pfr to be close together
 
Nathan Williams

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I would fold or 3bet preflop. Usually fold.
 
F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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yes good regs are tags or lags. just look for vpip/pfr to be close together
I don't see many of them at 2NL FR on PS. I see some where VP and PFR are identical (i.e. they ALWAYS either raise or fold), and a lot where VP is about double the PFR. This might possibly be skewed by the current 70 billionth hands celebrations, which is bringing in a lot of people that don't usually play cash games, as I am very new to cash games. I will start marking out those with close VP/PFR in future (once I have at least 100 hands on them).

I would fold or 3bet preflop. Usually fold.
Yes, to answer my original question I have probably overvalued my position here, but if I was going to play this marginal hand I really had to put in a decent 3bet. That might have caused one of them to fold, maybe even both. I then continued to play too passively, so all in all I made a right hash of it! :eek:



Poker Stars - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em (9 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com


SB: $11.05
BB: $1.28
UTG: $3.51
UTG+1: $1.97
MP: $2.06
MP+1: $3.37
MP+2: $5
CO: $1.25
BTN Hero: $1.94


Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN and dealt :as4: :10d4:
UTG calls $0.02, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 2 folds, MP+2 raises to $0.08, CO folds, Hero calls $0.08, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.06, UTG+1 calls $0.06


Flop: ($0.35) :js4: :10h4: :9c4: (4 players)
UTG bets $0.08, UTG+1 calls $0.08, MP+2 folds, Hero calls $0.08


Turn: ($0.59) :js4: :10h4: :9c4: :7c4: (3 players)
UTG bets $3.35 (All-in), UTG+1 calls $1.81 (All-in), Hero folds, UTG returned $1.54


River: ($4.21) :js4: :10h4: :9c4: :7c4: :6d4: (2 players)


Final Pot: $4.21


Showdown:
UTG shows :jh4: :8c4: (a straight, seven to jack)

UTG+1 shows :10s4: :qs4: (a pair of tens)

Outcome: UTG wins $4.01

So if I had decided to 3bet initially, what sort of amount do you think I should have bet with 2 opponents, one being a fish?
 
Arjonius

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There are three opponents, not two, already in the hand, plus the blinds have yet to act. Just fold. Yes, a healthy bet might win the pot then and there, but what if you get multiple callers? You have position, but with a hand that doesn't flop particularly well. Even if you succeed in isolating the raiser, how far ahead or behind do you think you are against his calling range? And there's always the possibility of a 4-bet. I fold and avoid playing a hand where, even with position, I'll end up in many situations that are either testing or unfavorable.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Yeah your default should def. be to fold preflop.
 
F4STFORW4RD

F4STFORW4RD

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There are three opponents, not two, already in the hand, plus the blinds have yet to act. Just fold. Yes, a healthy bet might win the pot then and there, but what if you get multiple callers? You have position, but with a hand that doesn't flop particularly well. Even if you succeed in isolating the raiser, how far ahead or behind do you think you are against his calling range? And there's always the possibility of a 4-bet. I fold and avoid playing a hand where, even with position, I'll end up in many situations that are either testing or unfavorable.
Thanks for explaining your reasoning so well. Thanks to everyone else, too, much appreciated :)
 
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