$2 NLHE Full Ring: Betting Critique Please

This is the type of hand I lose much too often, and would like input on my betting.

Preflop, my raise was standard. On the Flop, I definitely put the villain on a flush draw, and a straight draw, while not likely, was a possibility. While the Turn gave me a set, the diamond worried me, and it's here where I think I lose the most money on hands of this type. If I check and he bets, I'm out, sometimes needlessly I'm sure. If I bet low it's too easy for him to call, if I bet 1/2 pot or a pot, normally I'm tossing away money because I find it too hard to get away from a set. In this situation (ignoring the result of the hand), what should my bet be, or is a check the right play?

On the River, I knew I had nuts. I was going to bet more, but I honestly didn't believe he had a flush, as I thought he would have raised when he hit it. Thoughts on my river bet?


PokerStars - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: 258.5 BB (VPIP: 16.99, PFR: 13.94, 3Bet Preflop: 6.62, Hands: 466)
CO: 254 BB (VPIP: 19.35, PFR: 6.45, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 31)
BTN: 250 BB (VPIP: 12.90, PFR: 9.27, 3Bet Preflop: 2.53, Hands: 252)
SB: 46.5 BB (VPIP: 31.88, PFR: 26.09, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 70)
BB: 114 BB (VPIP: 10.77, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 4.00, Hands: 66)
UTG: 76 BB (VPIP: 29.73, PFR: 14.86, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 75)
UTG+1: 102 BB (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
UTG+2: 125 BB (VPIP: 10.66, PFR: 7.83, 3Bet Preflop: 0.93, Hands: 355)
Hero (MP): 252.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has Q:club: Q:spade:

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 3.5 BB, MP+1 calls 3.5 BB, CO calls 3.5 BB, BTN calls 3.5 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (15.5 BB, 4 players) 5:diamond: 6:diamond: 9:heart:
Hero bets 15 BB, fold, CO calls 15 BB, fold

Turn: (45.5 BB, 2 players) Q:diamond:
Hero bets 44 BB, CO calls 44 BB

River: (133.5 BB, 2 players) 6:club:
Hero bets 64 BB, CO calls 64 BB

Hero shows Q:club: Q:spade: (Full House, Queens full of Sixes) (Pre 68%, Flop 54%, Turn 23%)
CO mucks J:diamond: K:diamond: (Flush, King High) (Pre 32%, Flop 46%, Turn 77%)
Hero wins 252.5 BB

I would have check or small bet on the turn.
Even you didnt think he has the flush, your river bet is too small for me.

You don't have a lot of hands played against your opponent but i don't imagine many players calling a pot sized bet with a draw.
At that point I think he has a made hand ( top pair, over pair, two pairs, set, straight, flush) although over pair is unlikely given the way he played Pre and Post Flop.
If I had made this read I would probably bet bigger on the river, I would even consider an all-in

OK, thanks for your replies guys.

So you believe that me thinking he would have raised on the Turn bet had he made his flush is flawed then!

Again, thanks.

SeaRun said:

So you believe that me thinking he would have raised on the Turn bet had he made his flush is flawed then!

Click to expand...

The question isn't simply whether your assumption was good or bad, but rather how good or bad. I wouldn't expect a player who is 19/6 pre- to raise the turn every time he makes his flush. So when he just calls, you have to guesstimate how often he'd do so with the flush and whether it's unlikely enough to act as if he never would.

Arjonius said:

The question isn't simply whether your assumption was good or bad, but rather how good or bad. I wouldn't expect a player who is 19/6 pre- to raise the turn every time he makes his flush. So when he just calls, you have to guesstimate how often he'd do so with the flush and whether it's unlikely enough to act as if he never would.

Click to expand...

Thanks Arjon.

So would you have shoved on the River? Thinking about it now, maybe he would have considered it a bluff!!

If you think he has a flush here half of the time and you can get him to call a pot size bet or more, then it is better to make the bigger bet.

If you think he is only holding the flush a small amount of the time, then a smaller bet will induce more calls from the other hands that would never call the larger bet.

On the turn, I have a habit of often betting when the flush draw hits, it should cool the action so it will get a lot of folds that you would otherwise not get and will give you some information on if they call.

Once he calls the turn bet he has kind of turned his hand face up, he is going to have the flush (though I would think a weaker one) almost all the time here. So a big bet is nice.

I like betting the turn, I think checking there is bad.

If you don't get the full house on the river you can easily check it and call a smallish sized bet, though folding the river when you miss is fine most of the time. Once you bet the turn and they call, it should be pretty rare for a player of this type to be bluffing the river.

SeaRun said:

So would you have shoved on the River?

Click to expand...

Probably not. I'd bet more than 1/2 pot though. If he's calling that much, he's also calling somewhat more. Your job is to guess how much more.

More preflop if you are in a game where you are consistently getting 3 callers. 3 callers is not the goal with a preflop raise, folds or 1 caller is much more ideal. Don't pot this very coordinated and wet flop against 3 players. Turn is fine. More on the river.

You pot it on the flop on a wet board with an overpair, ok I guess, turn comes and completes a flush and you pot(why?)maybe 1/2 to 2/3rdish, you then hit pretty much the nuts on the river and bet under half pot? Easy 2/3rd pot bet here, do you think villain called pot size bets on the flop and turn to fold on the river to a bet larger than 1/2 pot?

BlackRain79 said:

More preflop if you are in a game where you are consistently getting 3 callers. 3 callers is not the goal with a preflop raise, folds or 1 caller is much more ideal. Don't pot this very coordinated and wet flop against 3 players. Turn is fine. More on the river.

Click to expand...

Pretty much this, except that at 2NL I'm good with the pot otf or at least close to it. Definitely punish these players if they're intent on flatting wide pre by charging them more to do it. Hold QQ as well. Also, river tops full.

IPlay said:

You pot it on the flop on a wet board with an overpair, ok I guess, turn comes and completes a flush and you pot(why?)maybe 1/2 to 2/3rdish, you then hit pretty much the nuts on the river and bet under half pot? Easy 2/3rd pot bet here, do you think villain called pot size bets on the flop and turn to fold on the river to a bet larger than 1/2 pot?

Click to expand...

I'll chalk up my mistakes to inexperience, and maybe misreading the opponent.

I think if I had my time back, my Flop bet would have been bigger. If he's on a FD or a SD, he's damn well going to pay to have to see the next card. Getting him to fold would have cost me chips in this hand, but I got lucky on the River and I know that. There are so many more I lose too big on that could be prevented by not making these type of mistakes.

Learning the game involves a significant learning curve in being to analyze your own play, at least in my opinion, and learn from mistakes.

As my knowledge increases, I realize that while I know my post-flop play has definite leaks, some mistakes pre-flop makes my post- play even worse.

As always, thanks everyone for your input.

SeaRun said:

I think if I had my time back, my Flop bet would have been bigger. If he's on a FD or a SD, he's damn well going to pay to have to see the next card. Getting him to fold would have cost me chips in this hand, but I got lucky on the River and I know that. There are so many more I lose too big on that could be prevented by not making these type of mistakes.

Click to expand...

Why would you want to bet more on the flop? To make it easier for an opponent who has a FD or SD to play correctly by folding? And does betting based on the assumption he has such a draw adequately consider his entire range?

As played I think you could have potted it OTR and got value from all his flushes and lesser full houses given that you potted 2 streets OOP already.

Personally don't like the pot on the turn, you put him on a flush draw and it got there, you don't wanna pot it and build a big pot when your now the one drawing. Half a pot lead out there to try and block or c/c if you believe he'll either check behind or give you the odds on your draw if he bets. Horrible playing OOP though so I do feel for you here lol.