$2 NLHE Full Ring: AQ flops tptk. Should i have played this differently?

jdihzy

jdihzy

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iPoker - €0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 93 BB (VPIP: 60.53, PFR: 16.22, 3Bet Preflop: 5.26, hands: 39)
CO: 201.5 BB (VPIP: 23.33, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)
BTN: 105 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
SB: 171 BB (VPIP: 11.76, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
BB: 147 BB (VPIP: 54.55, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
Hero (UTG): 139 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A:heart: Q:spade:

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (12 BB, 4 players) A:club: K:heart: 4:club:
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 8 BB, BTN raises to 25 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 136 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 77 BB

Turn: (216 BB, 2 players) 8:diamond:

River: (216 BB, 2 players) J:heart:

BTN shows 4:heart: 4:diamond: (Three of a Kind, Fours)
(Pre 54%, Flop 96%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows A:heart: Q:spade: (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 46%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)
BTN wins 202 BB
Hero wins 34 BB


Why over-shove flop?

In my mind, A9+ ,Kings with flush draws will pay... Am i'm totally wrong?
 
vinylspiros

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jamming in this spot is terribad in my opinion cause alot of the times you are going to fold out everything that you beat and will only get called by sets.

Best case scenario here is that he is chasing a flush but most of the time he has 2pair,sets.
 
jdihzy

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vinylspiros said:
jamming in this spot is terribad in my opinion cause alot of the times you are going to fold out everything that you beat and will only get called by sets.

Best case scenario here is that he is chasing a flush but most of the time he has 2pair,sets.
Click to expand...

Yeah i was either asleep or tilted...... That was such an easy hand to proceed carefully...

Thanks for your comment...
 
Figaroo2

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The problem here is you only have 2 hands on the Vill.
In that case I would treat his raise with some respect until I have reason to think otherwise. As is often the case at 2nl raises are 95% of the time simply for value. Beginners don't know enough to bluff raise a flop bet so its nearly always for value. As you point out there are a lot of weaker hands that might raise here so you should at least call.
You have overvalued your hand here and you should be calling and seeing what he does on the turn.
You rarely want to be committing your whole stack with one pair hands after the flop. Especially when you have shown strenght and still been raised.
 
Last edited:
Sil3ntness

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Am I losing my mind, but isn't TPTK in this situation AK? If you had AK you would of had the best ace and you would have paired up with the King to have two pair, but you only had one pair with your Ace Queen kicker.
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In this situation: you already posted the results, but I'll pretend that we didn't see the set of 4s :D !

You raise, the button calls (set mining time!) . You're out of position now. You bet into the board thinking that your top pair 2nd best kicker is winning. You get RAISED by the villain in position. That should throw off some red flags.

You probably figure that villain does not have pocket aces & kings because they flat called your UTG 3x BB raise from the dealer position. So when the flop comes they got that 10-12%? chance to hit a set. ding ding ding! Again trying to avoid being result oriented, but it's already been mentioned. Villain flopped a set and took advantage of your bet in position by 3 betting with the better hand.

Villain probably already knows your hand too prior to seeing the card. (AK, AQ, AJ etc.)

I guess the proper decision not being resulted based is folding AQo after villaian 3 bets you. The 3 bet was more than the pot. In that scenario they either have the nuts or they are pulling a maniac/wild bluff. However it's hard to believe that the villain would bluff you knowing that you were the initial raiser AND you did a continuation bet. Just gotta throw away your one pair and save some chips/$BB.
 
jdihzy

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Sil3ntness said:
Am I losing my mind, but isn't TPTK in this situation AK? If you had AK you would of had the best ace and you would have paired up with the King to have two pair, but you only had one pair with your Ace Queen kicker.
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In this situation: you already posted the results, but I'll pretend that we didn't see the set of 4s :D !

You raise, the button calls (set mining time!) . You're out of position now. You bet into the board thinking that your top pair 2nd best kicker is winning. You get RAISED by the villain in position. That should throw off some red flags.

You probably figure that villain does not have pocket aces & kings because they flat called your UTG 3x BB raise from the dealer position. So when the flop comes they got that 10-12%? chance to hit a set. ding ding ding! Again trying to avoid being result oriented, but it's already been mentioned. Villain flopped a set and took advantage of your bet in position by 3 betting with the better hand.

Villain probably already knows your hand too prior to seeing the card. (AK, AQ, AJ etc.)

I guess the proper decision not being resulted based is folding AQo after villaian 3 bets you. The 3 bet was more than the pot. In that scenario they either have the nuts or they are pulling a maniac/wild bluff. However it's hard to believe that the villain would bluff you knowing that you were the initial raiser AND you did a continuation bet. Just gotta throw away your one pair and save some chips/$BB.
Click to expand...

At the time i didn't even consider the fact that villain would be smart enough to put me in a open-raise range from UTG+1....
But now that you mentioned it, knowing that AK is on my range and every other AT+ .... Well...
 
suby_rafael

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There are two more players to act behind after villain. So effectively he made a big raise not against one but against 3 opponents ... so he not 3betting with one pair hands. This raise is either a flush draw or a hand better than one pair.

Get out on the flop. Very strong play by villain. :icon_blac
 
H

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Like this situation, I was a victim too. Its on the cc freerolls.

Anyway, its a learning process for us if we meet again this kind of situation.
 
Four Dogs

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jdihzy said:
iPoker - €0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP: 93 BB (VPIP: 60.53, PFR: 16.22, 3Bet Preflop: 5.26, Hands: 39)
CO: 201.5 BB (VPIP: 23.33, PFR: 20.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 30)
BTN: 105 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 2)
SB: 171 BB (VPIP: 11.76, PFR: 11.76, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 17)
BB: 147 BB (VPIP: 54.55, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
Hero (UTG): 139 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A<font color='red'>♥</font> Q<font color='black'>♠</font>

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 3 BB, SB calls 2.5 BB, BB calls 2 BB

Flop: (12 BB, 4 players) A<font color='black'>♣</font> K<font color='red'>♥</font> 4<font color='black'>♣</font>
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 8 BB, BTN raises to 25 BB, fold, fold, Hero raises to 136 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 77 BB

Turn: (216 BB, 2 players) 8<font color='red'>♦</font>

River: (216 BB, 2 players) J<font color='red'>♥</font>

BTN shows 4<font color='red'>♥</font> 4<font color='red'>♦</font> (Three of a Kind, Fours)
(Pre 54%, Flop 96%, Turn 100%)
Hero shows A<font color='red'>♥</font> Q<font color='black'>♠</font> (One Pair, Aces)
(Pre 46%, Flop 4%, Turn 0%)
BTN wins 202 BB
Hero wins 34 BB


Why over-shove flop?

In my mind, A9+ ,Kings with flush draws will pay... Am i'm totally wrong?
Click to expand...
AHH! What demon possibly possessed you to make a play like that? It is theoretically possible that a weaker hand will call, but it is highly unlikely. You are risking 130bb's to win a 45bb pot? This is really really bad, but I think you already know that.
 
C

cyclone45

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A little off topic but, what is Hero and Villian in poker?
 
Sil3ntness

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cyclone45 said:
A little off topic but, what is Hero and Villian in poker?
Click to expand...

"Hero" just means you.

"Villain" just means the person guy/gal you're heads up against.

I thought it was weird too. I still think it's weird, but that's just the universal term for you against your opponent.
 
jdihzy

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That was just brainless omfg...

Well, i'm coming back to poker guys...Expect to see a lot more of those before i even start to make sense...
 
TheGodson

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I think calling the flop is best. However, be prepared to fold if the flush fills in. Folding is actually probably the worst option, because you're giving up a huge pot where you have considerable equity in it.

Hands that beat you in order of likelyhood: 44, A4, AK, K4

That really isn't that many. One of them is probably raising preflop. A lot of K4 is probably getting dumped preflop too.

I think there are quite a few hands that you beat though. Some people would raise on the button with any ace to see where they are at. Not saying it is good, because I don't think it is, just saying that some people will do that. There are also some club draws that could potentially take this line. QJ of clubs, QT of clubs, JT of clubs, Kx of clubs, a couple more random clubs.

Depending on what card comes on the turn you might be able to do a check/shove.
 
TomLeach

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AQ is top pair top kicker... AK is two pair, so therefore the Q is the best possible kicker... Like others have said, the all in is bad. You want to charge flush draws etc but most hands will fold just because of the price.. But this is 2NL so who knows ;)
 
Shumkoolie

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I want to actually touch on a point that hasn't been discussed yet, and it is the villain's flop raise. I think villain's raise on the flop from Hero's Cbet of 8bb to 25bb was almost as bad as the shove. I think you are potentially chasing away value more often than not, but because Hero 3-bet shoved, Villain got lucky in that spot. Many good players are not going to continue after that big raise, and from what OP has indicated, has noted that and likely won't make that same mistake anytime soon.

Maybe a smaller raise by Villain to 17-20bb is more appropriate after Hero's lead, because I want to keep the Hero in, especially if Hero has TP, top two, or even some kind of draw, though a call some of the time is necessary too so as not to give away any betting patterns. Raising too much runs the risk of chasing away value as previously mentioned.

Thanks for posting this hand. Hopefully some of the advice ITT will be helpful. I know reading what other peoples' thoughts are is very helpful for me as well.
 
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