$2 NLHE Full Ring: AK vs Unknown

Nathan Williams

Nathan Williams

Poker Pro
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Total posts
1,095
Awards
3
Chips
10
Reads

  • Villain is a complete unknown, just sat down. I think he posted the hand before this one. Not sure if he played it or not.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (7 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($0.88)
MP2 ($2.50)
CO ($2.49)
Button ($2.09)
SB ($2.10)
Hero (BB) ($5.35)
UTG ($3.44)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A
heart.gif
, K
spade.gif

3 folds, CO calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero?

How much do you raise it to here? What if he 3bets? What is your plan for the hand on flops that you miss? Flops that you hit?
 
Last edited:
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
Raise to .12, if he 3-bets I'd jam. (folding wouldn't be terrible though) I've been in this spot where someone limp/reraises from CO/BTN before but yet to see them show up with AA.

Bet 1/2 pot on all flops barring 3-diamond, 3-club flops.
 
micromachine

micromachine

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 15, 2011
Total posts
5,770
Chips
0
A fish answer :D

All of this is dependent on the player, what his VPIP is how much he 3bets etc. But in general...

I would raise to 10 cents (4BB standard + 1BB for limp).

If he 3-bets:

He is unlikely to 3-bet after limping. But anyway.

If he 3-bet it would depend how much it was. If it was one of those pathetically small 3-bets I sometimes see at 2NL (like 1.7-2X the raise), I would 4-bet.

If its a proper 3-bet I would call. If I hit the flop I would check-raise, if I miss the flop I would check-call or check-fold depending on how big his bet is.

If he doesn't 3-bet:

If he calls my pre-flop raise, I c-bet 3/4 pot whether I hit or miss the flop. If I have hit the I do another 3/4 on the turn (unless it becomes likely that he has straight or flush). If I missed then I do just over 1/2 on turn the give up if he calls that too.
 
bgomez89

bgomez89

Resident Thugmaster
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 3, 2009
Total posts
3,127
Chips
0
.12 cents pre, shove if he limp/3bets, expect to flip if he calls.
 
R

RVladimiro

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Total posts
759
Chips
0
It this question was 3 months ago I'd say that I never saw limp/3bet that wasn't KK+ but more often AA.

Today, against a unknown I'd shove over and expect to be either ahead of AXs, KXs, SCs but more often flipping against almost any pair. 3betting has been insane lately.

If he called I'd cbet 60% on a dry flop and 90% on a wet flop regardless of missing or not. I expect to be ahead more than often with AK on the flop.

If I hit it, I'd keep firing for value unless I figured I had no showdown value.
If missed I'd keep firing if I had any equity or there were draws present because I expect to be called with worse if there are draws.
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
how about cbetting more on dry flops and less on wet flops?
 
Nathan Williams

Nathan Williams

Poker Pro
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Total posts
1,095
Awards
3
Chips
10
Thanks for the replies guys. Ya so 4BB + 1BB for the limper is pretty standard of course. I also prefer to add 1 more BB to compensate for my positional disadvantage. And I add a couple more BB just because it's NL2 and I have a good hand. So I chose 16c.

I agree with you guys that if he 3bets then we should just ship. I don't give unknowns any credit especially at NL2. And open limping in LP is a very weak play.

Again, similar to you guys, my plan is to bet a lot of flops. I don't bother balancing my sizings at all against an unknown. So I will be betting 60% or so on all flops that I miss except for a few flops like 987, 876 with suits that I don't have. I will just check fold on those ones. On flops that I hit I will bet pot.

And my plan for the rest of the hand is pretty much to just to continue hitting the pot button. There isn't a whole lot else interesting in this hand. Perhaps it's a silly hand to post. I just wanted to illustrate how ridiculous the play is at these levels and how to get the maximum value.

Preflop: Hero is BB with A
heart.gif
, K
spade.gif

3 folds, CO calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero bets $0.16, CO calls $0.14

Flop: ($0.33) 8
heart.gif
, 9
heart.gif
, A
diamond.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $0.32, CO calls $0.32

Turn: ($0.97) 2
diamond.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $0.93, CO calls $0.93

River: ($2.83) 7
club.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $2.70, CO calls $1.08 (All-In)

Total pot: $4.99 | Rake: $0.24

Villain had [Kd Td] (high card Ace)
 
tenbob

tenbob

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 16, 2005
Total posts
11,221
Awards
1
Chips
20
Nice way to think about a hand. Deposit $200, and move up :)
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
I think the hand rankings in hold'em should be changed so that having a flush draw + open-ender on the river = two pair.
 
R

RVladimiro

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Total posts
759
Chips
0
River: ($2.83) 7:club: (2 players)
Hero bets $2.70, CO calls $1.08 (All-In)

By the way, this looks extremely bluffy and fish hates to be bluffed. What I've been doing with monsters (wouldn't do it with this hand though) is to shove vs loose passive fish or bet very small (30%) vs loose aggressive fish that end up shoving if they have anything.
 
Nathan Williams

Nathan Williams

Poker Pro
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Total posts
1,095
Awards
3
Chips
10
By the way, this looks extremely bluffy and fish hates to be bluffed. What I've been doing with monsters (wouldn't do it with this hand though) is to shove vs loose passive fish or bet very small (30%) vs loose aggressive fish that end up shoving if they have anything.

Ya this is an idea that I have used to my advantage for years. Pot sized or even over pot bets make people flip out. Especially fish of course but I have used it even against regs with a lot of success at the micro limits. A lot of weaker or newer players interpret a big bet as a bluff. So you can exploit that by doing it with nut type hands. I often do it with TPTK as well because that hand is often still ahead of their bluff catching range.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
like duh obviously ldo
GG ldo imo

I don't think fish are thinking about your bet size, I think they just hate folding. They see aggressive players betting all the time, and they're just like "HE CAN'T HAVE A HAND EVERYTIME HE BETS CAN HE!?!?" Curiosity owns them.
 
R

RVladimiro

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 27, 2011
Total posts
759
Chips
0
Ya this is an idea that I have used to my advantage for years. Pot sized or even over pot bets make people flip out. Especially fish of course but I have used it even against regs with a lot of success at the micro limits. A lot of weaker or newer players interpret a big bet as a bluff. So you can exploit that by doing it with nut type hands. I often do it with TPTK as well because that hand is often still ahead of their bluff catching range.

Hmmmm I'm guessing I may be missing some spots. I've just tried this with a passive player betting into me on a paired board where I flopped a nut boat. I cbet, he called so I checked the turn to see if I was getting aggression (meaning he had trips or a baby boat!) or if no aggression, shipping the river to look like a bluff. He did bet the turn and I shoved the river. I didn't want to c/r because it would look strong but on the other hand leading looks very bluffy. He called and he had in fact trips.

I guess it will work with TPTK against the total clueless that can't let go a TP with no kicker.

EDIT: I've tried other things, like betting 0.88 to a villain with 0.89 left? TILTZZZZ!! Would be interesting to try other things like min-raising to induce a shove or a call. Any other thoughts on this? How to create more calling mistakes by betting/raising for value?
 
B

baudib1

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 2, 2008
Total posts
6,635
Chips
0
This betsizing thing is really villain dependent. If the guy is aggro/bluffy then yeah, it may be a bluff but when nits start potting at me I usually fold.
 
Nathan Williams

Nathan Williams

Poker Pro
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 13, 2011
Total posts
1,095
Awards
3
Chips
10
Hmmmm I'm guessing I may be missing some spots. I've just tried this with a passive player betting into me on a paired board where I flopped a nut boat. I cbet, he called so I checked the turn to see if I was getting aggression (meaning he had trips or a baby boat!) or if no aggression, shipping the river to look like a bluff. He did bet the turn and I shoved the river. I didn't want to c/r because it would look strong but on the other hand leading looks very bluffy. He called and he had in fact trips.

I guess it will work with TPTK against the total clueless that can't let go a TP with no kicker.

EDIT: I've tried other things, like betting 0.88 to a villain with 0.89 left? TILTZZZZ!! Would be interesting to try other things like min-raising to induce a shove or a call. Any other thoughts on this? How to create more calling mistakes by betting/raising for value?

Ya I mean you just have to figure out the way to get the max value with your big hands no matter what limit you are playing. One size does not fit all.
 
Top