$2 NLHE Full Ring: AK 4bet OOP

johnsulliv said:

Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 114 BB
Hero (SB): 102.5 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 100 BB
UTG+1: 107.5 BB
MP: 64 BB
MP+1: 100 BB
CO: 100 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♣ A♦

UTG raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, UTG raises to 23 BB, Hero raises to 37 BB, UTG raises to 51 BB, Hero calls 14 BB

Flop: (103 BB, 2 players) 8♣ J♦ T♠
Hero bets 51.5 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 49 BB and is all-in

Turn: (201 BB, 2 players) 5♣

River: (201 BB, 2 players) 9♥

Hero shows K♣ A♦ (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 65%, Flop 65%, Turn 61%)
UTG shows 9♣ 2♣ (One Pair, Nines)
(Pre 35%, Flop 35%, Turn 39%)
UTG wins 191 BB


Any thoughts welcome on either the villian's line or my own.
I think this probably falls into the line of emotional tilt, or that there is something about this particular type of player that, really, rustles my jimmies.

apologies in advance for the error on the title. its more 5Bet or 6Bet.

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AllenKll said:

I can appreciate aggression in general...However, knowing restraint can be key.

I think I would have called the villains 4-bet instead of 5-betting. I am assuming you were going for value, but when you get to a 4-bet, one would have to think that we're dealing with top premium hands here. His 4-bet would seem to indicate KK,AA maybe QQ, All of which you are way behind on.

From playing with the villian, though, you must have known he was a maniac. So, I can see you 5-betting, in that scenario, but, at that point an All-in is really the only option. anything else would simply make the villian pot committed to call anything anyway, so you would have no fold equity.

The bet on the flop, has zero fold equity - because it's simply a pot sized bet.

That being said... maniacs are gonna maniac... nothing can be done about that.

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Dkerridge14 said:

After the 4bet you should be getting rid I would say and if you are coming over the top it should be with a jam. This should only be when you have a good read that the villain is 4bet bluffing massively because UTG 4bets are usually going to be ,KK+,AKs.
I prefer to throw away here though because most of time we are in a really bad position

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johnsulliv said:

Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 114 BB
Hero (SB): 102.5 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 100 BB
UTG+1: 107.5 BB
MP: 64 BB
MP+1: 100 BB
CO: 100 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♣ A♦

UTG raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, UTG raises to 23 BB, Hero raises to 37 BB, UTG raises to 51 BB, Hero calls 14 BB

Flop: (103 BB, 2 players) 8♣ J♦ T♠
Hero bets 51.5 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 49 BB and is all-in

Turn: (201 BB, 2 players) 5♣

River: (201 BB, 2 players) 9♥

Hero shows K♣ A♦ (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 65%, Flop 65%, Turn 61%)
UTG shows 9♣ 2♣ (One Pair, Nines)
(Pre 35%, Flop 35%, Turn 39%)
UTG wins 191 BB


Any thoughts welcome on either the villian's line or my own.
I think this probably falls into the line of emotional tilt, or that there is something about this particular type of player that, really, rustles my jimmies.

apologies in advance for the error on the title. its more 5Bet or 6Bet.

Click to expand...

AllenKll said:

I can appreciate aggression in general...However, knowing restraint can be key.

I think I would have called the villains 4-bet instead of 5-betting. I am assuming you were going for value, but when you get to a 4-bet, one would have to think that we're dealing with top premium hands here. His 4-bet would seem to indicate KK,AA maybe QQ, All of which you are way behind on.

From playing with the villian, though, you must have known he was a maniac. So, I can see you 5-betting, in that scenario, but, at that point an All-in is really the only option. anything else would simply make the villian pot committed to call anything anyway, so you would have no fold equity.

The bet on the flop, has zero fold equity - because it's simply a pot sized bet.

That being said... maniacs are gonna maniac... nothing can be done about that.

Click to expand...

Dkerridge14 said:

That’s why getting it in is a problem, the best you’re hoping for is QQ, any hand the range and you are crushed. It’s better just to release the hand and find a better spot. Coming over the top on a min 5bet achieves nothing at all.
If it is a maniac visibly then what are we hoping for when we do anything other than fold?

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teh_colonel_saigon said:

I agree with all said above. 5! jam.

I assume you have a read on this villain- that he is a loose donkey. If not, then you have to reconsider your line.

Against a usual UTG open `11% of hands you have to think even about your 3bet vs V's continuing range. OOP you may also want to call there as you are closing the action and will be OOP, plus you are decently ahead of V's opening range UTG.

AKs is a def 3! for value, AKo can go either way. Once you decide to 3! you should have a plan facing a 4bet, and if this player is loose you should be 5! jamming on him with a hand that does very well against a wide 4! range.

As for the hand as played, he 6! your 5!, anything other than shoving doesn't make sense.

Let's look at the math.

"UTG raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, UTG raises to 23 BB, Hero raises to 37 BB, UTG raises to 51 BB, Hero calls 14 BB"

At the time of the 6! the pot has 88.5 bb and you have 63bb remaining.

A shove here needs 63 / (63 + 88.5) = 41.5%. But we know that V is never folding, so his stack will be in paly too.

Our equation then is 63 / (63 + 88.5 + 49) = 31 %.

If V is calling our shove with AK, QQ+, we have 38% equity and therefore a 7! allin is +EV.

This move is preferable than shoving on any flop because we are allowing villain to pick good flops to continue on. The flop you shoved on was pretty wet, and as we saw, V actually had decent equity to continue.

Take-aways: 1)UTG is usually very tight and we should respect their range, especially their 4! range.
2) 5! all-in is typical with a 100bb stack vs a 4bet
3) With fish that want to gamble, get the money in early as they will rarely fold (even if they do, we realize our equity with a non-made hand)

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johnsulliv said:

Yatahay Network - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 8 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 114 BB
Hero (SB): 102.5 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 100 BB
UTG+1: 107.5 BB
MP: 64 BB
MP+1: 100 BB
CO: 100 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♣ A♦

UTG raises to 2.5 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, UTG raises to 23 BB, Hero raises to 37 BB, UTG raises to 51 BB, Hero calls 14 BB

Flop: (103 BB, 2 players) 8♣ J♦ T♠
Hero bets 51.5 BB and is all-in, UTG calls 49 BB and is all-in

Turn: (201 BB, 2 players) 5♣

River: (201 BB, 2 players) 9♥

Hero shows K♣ A♦ (High Card, Ace)
(Pre 65%, Flop 65%, Turn 61%)
UTG shows 9♣ 2♣ (One Pair, Nines)
(Pre 35%, Flop 35%, Turn 39%)
UTG wins 191 BB


Any thoughts welcome on either the villian's line or my own.
I think this probably falls into the line of emotional tilt, or that there is something about this particular type of player that, really, rustles my jimmies.

apologies in advance for the error on the title. its more 5Bet or 6Bet.

Click to expand...