$2 NLHE Full Ring: AA shove at flop gone wrong... I knew villain plays strong with Ax hands...

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Rational Madman

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$2 NLHE Full Ring: AA shove at flop gone wrong... I knew villain plays strong with Ax hands...

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 15/8/44

Watch the hand: https://www.jivaro.com/profile/RationalMadman/posts/59ec52c7daae65d806c60647/

Based on constantly observing this one opponent who I have hundreds of hands experience with (flayTilt) I knew when flop came she either had Kx or Ax (she'd 4bet my 3bet if she had Kings on the preflop)

So I shove the flop knowing that the chances of her having 2pair is basically the only thing to fear here but with Kx she wouldn't call my 3bet preflop she only does that with Ax in my experience with her.

I was correct... Except she had flush draw.
 
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KFlint

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Do you have any question? I don't see any.

I obviously don't like the min 4-bet that accomplishes nothing, reduce the spr and it's easier to play it fast postflop. You are giving a ridiculous price for any pair to call and outflop you.

Even a fish can find a fold here to this massive jam, her call was just awful.
 
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Rational Madman

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Do you have any question? I don't see any.

I obviously don't like the min 4-bet that accomplishes nothing, reduce the spr and it's easier to play it fast postflop. You are giving a ridiculous price for any pair to call and outflop you.

Even a fish can find a fold here to this massive jam, her call was just awful.
It's specifically because of how tempted she gets at draws that I played how I played (I'd been keeping note of her mentally). I learned my lesson though; bully preflop to ensure I@m only vs QQ Qk, KA etc. :)
 
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braveslice

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I wouldn’t mind the play too much if you have a read he will call KQ, AK + draws. Many do in 2NL. I have done my shoves too =)


4bet size too small. Also when you get better opponents plays like this are not profitable anymore, so you need to unlearn them later, you get faster progress overall if you don’t go too specific 2NL exploitable plays. The principle is important though, you ask the max opponent is ready to donate.
 
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Very cool this way of analyzing a hand. Man, I make this move too, do you think it's profitable in the long run?
 
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KFlint

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I wouldn’t mind the play too much if you have a read he will call KQ, AK + draws. Many do in 2NL. I have done my shoves too =)


4bet size too small. Also when you get better opponents plays like this are not profitable anymore, so you need to unlearn them later, you get faster progress overall if you don’t go too specific 2NL exploitable plays. The principle is important though, you ask the max opponent is ready to donate.

Interesting view on this, I have to say I never played this way when I was playing 2NL, maybe I should have against the right opponent.

I have the feeling that 4betting here to say 20bb could still result in a call from villain and the hand is super easy to play.

Flatting the 3bet has it's merit too and raise the flop. To me, clicking it back looks very nutty. The worst are min 5bet.
 
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Rational Madman

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Interesting view on this, I have to say I never played this way when I was playing 2NL, maybe I should have against the right opponent.

I have the feeling that 4betting here to say 20bb could still result in a call from villain and the hand is super easy to play.

Flatting the 3bet has it's merit too and raise the flop. To me, clicking it back looks very nutty. The worst are min 5bet.

I wouldn’t mind the play too much if you have a read he will call KQ, AK + draws. Many do in 2NL. I have done my shoves too =)


4bet size too small. Also when you get better opponents plays like this are not profitable anymore, so you need to unlearn them later, you get faster progress overall if you don’t go too specific 2NL exploitable plays. The principle is important though, you ask the max opponent is ready to donate.

So from both of your feedback I understand that my plays were right but what I should have done is bet MORE with my 4bet at preflop.

I will do this from now on definitely.
 
atlantafalcons0

atlantafalcons0

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Next time bump up your 4bet more, you could just shove there or put in about 4x the amount he raised. Doesn't make any sense at all to min raise 4 bet. That ruins a pair of aces just like allowing multiple players to see for cheap.

Make your 4bet count. You didn't protect your hand, you got greedy.
 
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Rational Madman

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Very cool this way of analyzing a hand. Man, I make this move too, do you think it's profitable in the long run?

To get replays like I have need to purchase Jivaro HUD. :)
You play on a phone, I can tell from your screenshots. Phone is fine for single-tabling but can't use HUD with phone (at least not Jivaro) sorry about it.

For more info about Jivaro:


Next time bump up your 4bet more, you could just shove there or put in about 4x the amount he raised. Doesn't make any sense at all to min raise 4 bet. That ruins a pair of aces just like allowing multiple players to see for cheap.

Make your 4bet count. You didn't protect your hand, you got greedy.

Yes, I got it thanks for reaffirming though. Will think much more about size of my bets from now on.
 
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KFlint

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So from both of your feedback I understand that my plays were right but what I should have done is bet MORE with my 4bet at preflop.

I will do this from now on definitely.

Yes, I'm ok with the shove with a lower spr around 2, especially against a station.
If the board was dryer, betting 1/4 or 1/3 pot would be the way to go, can induce bluffs and keep hands with very few outs.
 
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braveslice

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When you shove once, everyone will remember what you did because it's so extreme. They will note it. So you can't use this line as a standard, but rather a rare line against obvious stations sometimes.

Like KFlint, Atlanta says, if you get small SPR this is closer to be a line to use, but with low SPR it does not matter too much anymore anyways because the stacks are going in if villain has a hand and him calling smaller bet is more likely. He won' fold in this case either with AK for example.

Just created a rule that might be usable or not, if villain is likely to call shove with TPMK (KT,KJ) this is line to think about.
 
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