$2 NLHE Full Ring: AA facing flop check/raise

dundo84

dundo84

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Total posts
100
Awards
1
Chips
2
What i know from this player is only that he shoved his 100bb stack 2-3 times preflop.
Seat 4: kkrrrr ( $2.13 )
Seat 5: jofosuarez ( $2.13 )
Seat 7: brickypooh ( $1.80 )
Seat 9: PrototypeXY ( $1.13 )
Seat 10: faylamiaa ( $0.71 )
jofosuarez posts small blind [$0.01]
brickypooh folds
PrototypeXY posts big blind [$0.02]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to PrototypeXY [ As, Ah ]
faylamiaa folds
flushdoro folds
ely003 folds
ChuckRandall folds
kkrrrr folds
jofosuarez calls [$0.01]
PrototypeXY raises [$0.06]
jofosuarez calls [$0.06]
** Dealing flop ** [ 8d, Tc, 9d ]
jofosuarez checks
PrototypeXY bets [$0.12]
jofosuarez raises [$0.32]
? i should fold this
 
John A

John A

Poker Zion Coach
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Total posts
6,492
Awards
3
Chips
37
In BvB spot, just call and use position. Obviously this nails his limp/calling range, but here's a lot of combo hands or pure draw hands he can have here.

If you have some specific / read info on this player, I don't mind a fold. Like if he was really tight / nitty. But considering the spot and texture, generally you should at least be calling, and likely shoving most blank turns.
 
dundo84

dundo84

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Total posts
100
Awards
1
Chips
2
No reads on him, i assumed he's a fish because of his preflop all ins.
He didn't raise from the sb so i put all pocket pairs and broadway cards out of his range.I thought he has either top pair(maybe 2 pairs) or a straight/flush draw.
Anyway this is how it finished.
http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/7649899
 
N

nkat

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 31, 2016
Total posts
155
Chips
0
very easy all in with stack sizes. 100+ bb deep 3b to .89 and call it off.
 
J

joe777

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
May 3, 2014
Total posts
2,694
Chips
0
Raise bigger pre at least 4xbb.As played it should depends on villain stat/tendencies.
 
M

MinhANguyen

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
695
Chips
0
Not the greatest board to c-bet. And it's a pretty easy fold. Checking back here is a good option, since he's most likely stabbing his entire range OTT. We get a lot of value from his air, and he'll lightly call us down pretty light since the don't expect us to check back our overpairs here. I prefer to check back these types of flops. It disguises your hand and overall range. And when you check back a really strong hand here, it tells people they can't just stab the turn when you check a flop that hits their range so much harder than it hits yours. In general, people are too weak/unbalanced when they check back wet board textures.

The lower stakes you play, the more passively players play their draws. You're going to see QJ/sets/two pair like almost 100% of the time. I seriously doubt fish who are passive limp Jx here and goes crazy when he flops an open-ender. And nobody really ever raises Jx anyway when the PFR c-bets this board fwiw. AA is a very bad stack-off here against 99% of the population. You have all QJ/sets/lots of two pairs/some 76s in your range, so I don't see why we need to defend AA here. Even at higher stakes, someone's stack-off range here has AA absolutely crushed.
 
Last edited:
N

nkat

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 31, 2016
Total posts
155
Chips
0
waaaaa?

a little over 50bbs deep and opponent has open shoved pf a few times....
 
M

MinhANguyen

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
695
Chips
0
Huh did not see that part... My bad. If he's that tilted, then I still check flop and let him bluff.
 
TimovieMan

TimovieMan

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Total posts
2,264
Chips
0
I'm not c-betting that flop.
I am calling this guy down on most turn and river cards, though.
 
Delvuter

Delvuter

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 2, 2014
Total posts
307
Chips
0
Call and see if they bet the turn. If they check the turn bet any non scare card, but if it adds to the draws just get out if bet into.
 
dundo84

dundo84

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Total posts
100
Awards
1
Chips
2
I just should have folded after the raise on the flop.In the low stakes, if i have no reads on a player and he raise my bet on the flop(in my case) means he either hit 2 pairs, a set or straight.My mind told me i'm beat, well but sometimes i just go crazy and gamble, have to work on that.
I think checking would cost me more compared to folding to that raise.
Thnx for the feedback all.
 
N

nkat

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 31, 2016
Total posts
155
Chips
0
I'm really shocked by the responses.. you do have reads.. open shoving pf a few times is a read. This is the easiest bet/get it in ever!

-checking the flop is not a good play.. losing value from any hand with 7 to J in it and flush draws. When he raises doing anything but going all in is really bad.. for the same reason as betting flop. For those who say most at these levels are passive and don't raise flops.. I don't even necessarily agree with that, but even if that i the case this guy open shoved pf! it is also BVB and you have a little over 50bbs..

You played it well, sorry you got unlucky.
 
M

MinhANguyen

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
695
Chips
0
If you're not checking TP types of hands on this type of board, you play way too face-up. Your checking range will be extremely weak. Also, AA is pretty much the same thing as 102s here when we get raised. We might have good absolute hand strength, but not necessarily strong relative hand strength. There are many reasons to check this board here, some of which I mentioned above. And if you stack off AA/overpairs like this regularly, you will go broke. I don't know what kind of range you are assigning him to be snap stacking off AA here.
 
Last edited:
dundo84

dundo84

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 25, 2014
Total posts
100
Awards
1
Chips
2
He would squeeze me anyway i think, even if check/called that flop.I think it was good to bet on the flop by my side and as i said above i should have folded, to many times i saw players beat in similar situations.No i don't stack off overpairs regulary, not saying this happened to me the first time, need to work on my discipline a lil more.
 
M

MinhANguyen

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
695
Chips
0
That's being results-oriented. Against his entire range, AA is doing so well. We get two streets from any 10x, most pairs because he doesn't believe we check back TP+ on this board, and a lot value from his air that stabs the turn and some rivers when we show weakness. Just because you would have lost anyway does not mean checking back AA is more +EV than betting it here. We are not playing against our opponent's hands necessarily, but their range if hands they could have.

And I wasn't specifically mentioning anyone when I said "you." I just meant this is a bad spot in general to go broke.
 
N

nkat

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 31, 2016
Total posts
155
Chips
0
If you're not checking TP types of hands on this type of board, you play way too face-up. Your checking range will be extremely weak. Also, AA is pretty much the same thing as 102s here when we get raised. We might have good absolute hand strength, but not necessarily strong relative hand strength. There are many reasons to check this board here, some of which I mentioned above. And if you stack off AA/overpairs like this regularly, you will go broke. I don't know what kind of range you are assigning him to be snap stacking off AA here.


against someone at 2nl who open shoves 100bbs pf im not worried about balancing ranges.

"AA is same as T2s" noooo..can definitely raise with Tx hands, Jx, flush draws.. AA does a lot better vs that, it also makes Tx more likely.

What range am I putting someone on at 2nl who open shoves pf.. well sets, 2prs, straights, Tx, 9x sometimes, flush draws, 87 maybe. Wide enough to go all in for 50bbs easily
 
M

MinhANguyen

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
695
Chips
0
It's not even about balancing ranges. Checking is more +EV so we get looked up lighter and induce bluffs from pretty much all his air that stabs the turn. Almost everyone at higher stakes pretty much auto stabs when the PFR checks a really crappy board. And I doubt anyone puts us on an overpair when we check back, so I wouldn't be surprised for them to hero call two streets with any pair as long as the board doesn't bring 3 to a flush or 4 to a straight.

And you know AA vs a range of sets/straights/two pr/10x/flush draws and occasionally 87 spaz, AA is crushed right? You have 0% vs his straights, 10% vs sets, 18% vs two pair, flipping against his combo draws, and only crush his 10x hands that don't have a straight draw to go with it. If he has J10/87 or something like that, we're flipping. Doesn't sound like a great stack-off to me.
 
Last edited:
N

nkat

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 31, 2016
Total posts
155
Chips
0
It's like 30% vs 2pr, set combos = 9. Str8s are an issue, yeah.. way too many silly hands in their range though...
 
N

nkat

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 31, 2016
Total posts
155
Chips
0
as far as inducing.. yeah i see your logic, betting has too much value here though
 
M

MinhANguyen

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Total posts
695
Chips
0
My bad it's 30% vs two pr. If you actually put in the range you assigned him into Pokerstove, you'll see it's not a good stack-off. But if you are totally convinced about stacking AA, we'll have to agree to disagree.
 
Top