Originally Posted by mottotom27
You're right actually, being OOP really sucks. Like if I 3 bet from the blinds with AK and then a fish or unknown calls and I bet flop when I miss and they call, then what? I think it's these 3 bet pots OOP where I leak the most tbh. I'm considering just not c betting the flop when I miss with AK cos people seem to call me way too often.
Same thing with JJ if i 3 bet OOP get called and an overcard hits the flop it gets really tricky. What do you do? Do you bet flop and give up if they call? Check/fold flop? Check/call flop and check/fold turn?
Yeah position really is everything in this game. For the AK example, the times that we C-bet should be determined by a combination of the board texture and villains tendencies/stats. For example, we know that most villains at these stakes probably are calling relatively wide with their raising ranges unless they are playing 10 tables or something. Grab an equity calculator and punch in their opening range, then narrow that down to what you think their calling range is and look at it, even run AK against it and see what your equity is. Now run some flops through there and look at how villains range hits those flops. What you should find is that villain misses the flops like 942 rainbow, but hits flops like KQ9 two tone. So the first flop texture is the one we C-bet and the second is the one we give up.
So you should find that most villains just fold to your C-bet on flops that miss their range, if they do call you that tells you something. In this situation when we have AK and say the flop is 942 rainbow, if villain calls they either have us beat with a hand like TT/J9, or they are floating us. At these levels I have found that most regular villains do not float with nothing. The same as you don't randomly call someone's C-bet in a 3-bet pot with A high and no draw. With no information I am checking any turns that don't improve me and probably folding to a bet, if this becomes a recurring situation and I find villain constantly betting turns when I check then I will adjust. Hasn't happened often though.
In the JJ situation you describe our decision should be weighted more by who the villain is. The flops we want to C-bet are low but that hasn't happened in this case, when we bet we should be betting for value (as we don't expect villain to fold top pair on the flop). So we need to decide if villain will call us with worse, If we think villain will call with middle pair, and middle pair is in their 3-bet flatting range then yeah sure we can bet, but we might not bet the turn because we think villain will fold to two barrels so we can check the turn, we also wouldn't expect villain to bet their middle pair either for value or as a bluff so if they do bet we can put them on top pair a lot of the time and pretty safely check fold a lot of turn cards.
Remember that these situations are in a vacuum against standard 5nl players. If they are 1 tabling muppets then maybe we can bet two streets for value, or if they are nitty regs we can check fold the flop. We will make way more money when we are in position and thus in control so don't get married to hands OOP, there will always be better spots, this is cash not tourneys .