$2 NLHE Full Ring: 4bet sizing check

Just mucking around in the micros at the moment, trying to see how far I can go using my accrued VPP's from this year. Getting my feet wet before i deposit and start playing some higher buyin, probably 25 or 50NL.

So I was a little confused as to what size to go with here, probably a little bigger, but then, i may as well just shove as it might look weaker. Thoughts?

Also, while this is obviously a waste of time at 2NL or even 50NL really, i'm trying to work out a 4betting range and adjust my sizing accordingly, so i can use a 4bet bluff. So obv i don't really want to price myself into calling if i bet more than say 40% of my stack, so i'd be looking to 4bet to around 30% of my stack as a bluff, but also for value? So instead of the 46cents i bet, i'd make it like 55-60 cents? Which i assume (without doing the math) gives me room to fold if this was actually a bluff.

Sorry if i'm rambling, it's 4.30 AM, i'll try to fix this post tommorow if it's unclear, but i'm really only still learning cash, so bear with my stupidity .


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP2 ($2.14)
MP3 ($1)
CO ($0.80)
Button ($1.31)
SB ($2)
BB ($2)
Hero (UTG) ($2)
UTG+1 ($5.70)
MP1 ($1.25)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A , A
Hero bets $0.07, 2 folds, MP2 raises to $0.22, 5 folds, Hero raises to $0.46, 1 fold

Total pot: $0.47 | Rake: $0

the only problem i see with 4betting small with 100bb's is it leaves us with an awkward stack size if he flats. if effective stacks are deeper (closer to 200bb's) then 4betting to about $0.50 gives us plenty of room to fold to a 5bet with our air and perfect set up to get it all-in on the turn if he flats pre and flop.

with 100bb's effective i'd opt for 4bet to about $0.70 this leaves us with $1.30 to shove into about $1.40 if he flats pre.

i'm still learning cash games but i would think we wouldn't want to 4bet bluff with 100bb's.
someone correct me i'm this is wrong.

any reads on villain?

I think 4-betting to 50 cents is fine but that's minor. You should consider flatting here because we should really never be 4-bet bluffing UTG, save that for CO vs. BTN and later spots.

I like the size

$0.55 is my standard here (2.5x). But this is fine.

I almost never call in this spot.

Yeah I'm never calling the 3bet. We've opened UTG and a micro donk in MP has 3bet. He's almost never folding to a 4bet. I would have made it .55 as well.

Do you have any flatting range then?

Not in the situation described. It's either a 4bet or fold and it's never a 4bet bluff.

Thanks guys, I wasn't suggesting this would be a good spot to 4bet bluff, I guess i was after some guidelines for 4betting in situations in 6max cash games, where 3betting is more common.

I think the number is around 25-30% of my stack i would want to be risking if I 4bet bluff, as any more will leave me in a decision where it wouldn't matter if i called or folded.

cheaptrix said:

the only problem i see with 4betting small with 100bb's is it leaves us with an awkward stack size if he flats. if effective stacks are deeper (closer to 200bb's) then 4betting to about $0.50 gives us plenty of room to fold to a 5bet with our air and perfect set up to get it all-in on the turn if he flats pre and flop.

with 100bb's effective i'd opt for 4bet to about $0.70 this leaves us with $1.30 to shove into about $1.40 if he flats pre.

i'm still learning cash games but i would think we wouldn't want to 4bet bluff with 100bb's.
someone correct me i'm this is wrong.

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It's more so for the 6max cash games, not so much for the lower levels, but it's always good to be prepared for the times when you move up. ANd since everyone is 3betting so wide, you kind of have to throw in a 4bet bluff to counter their aggressive 3betting, and to a lessor degree to balance out your range so your not only 4betting monsters.

SInce i'm also just learning please feel free to correct my line of thinking^

WiZZiM said:

It's more so for the 6max cash games, not so much for the lower levels, but it's always good to be prepared for the times when you move up. ANd since everyone is 3betting so wide, you kind of have to throw in a 4bet bluff to counter their aggressive 3betting, and to a lessor degree to balance out your range so your not only 4betting monsters.

SInce i'm also just learning please feel free to correct my line of thinking^

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I think at 2NL they are not "3betting so wide." You don't want to run bluffs at 2NL. Play straight forward and value bet them to death. You can't bluff someone who isn't thinking about what you have.

alaskabill said:

I think at 2NL they are not "3betting so wide." You don't want to run bluffs at 2NL. Play straight forward and value bet them to death. You can't bluff someone who isn't thinking about what you have.

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Yeah i guess i should be a lot more specific with my questions. I'm not talking about 2nl more like 25nl or 50nl, even then it's a stretch to find spots to 4bet bluff, but these days a lot of people do 3bet often.

For sure you should 4-bet more than monsters IF someone is 3-betting wide.

I think you could do 25x-30xbb here.If MP2 was a fish,definitely go for more (value),they could be 3b you with broadways,TT-KK,and usually will never fold.

vs a reg(which i think this is a never at 2NL),but applicable at higher stakes
one could flat if he folds 90-100% of his 3b range here.