$2 NLHE Full Ring: 3okQs IP vs LP villian, how would you have played?

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Gabe16

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 28/10/1.2



http://www.pokerhandreplays.com/view.php/id/8825238

hi, first time poster,


what would you have done differently?


thanks



Hi,

Raise flop. Calling here’s a crime, we dropped right into value town with draws that can call, worse Qx and some sticky pairs. Get the pot building!

Bet the turn bigger. You have two hands out there and are offering implied odds so we need to cut pot odds, charge for the mistake of drawing. It’s more likely a caller has a flush draw here than Qx. So charging more now is best. Once we bet the river we’re getting called from a much stronger range.

The river

Pot 1.54 to call 64. Close to 2.5-1 we need to ahead 30% + rake here.

Unfortunately I just don’t think we are. When a passive player suddenly bets out on a card that completes so many draws we’re against purely a value range. And a passive players value range is tighter than most.

What value bets do we beat here? Passive players are unlikely to bet trips on a 3 to a straight board preferring to check call. But any Qx that might get here that we beat are few and far between.

We can fold here and not feel bad about it. We should feel terrible about the rest of the hand though.
 
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MrMontanaRC

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Hi,

Raise flop. Calling here’s a crime, we dropped right into value town with draws that can call, worse Qx and some sticky pairs. Get the pot building!

Bet the turn bigger. You have two hands out there and are offering implied odds so we need to cut pot odds, charge for the mistake of drawing. It’s more likely a caller has a flush draw here than Qx. So charging more now is best. Once we bet the river we’re getting called from a much stronger range.

The river

Pot 1.54 to call 64. Close to 2.5-1 we need to ahead 30% + rake here.

Unfortunately I just don’t think we are. When a passive player suddenly bets out on a card that completes so many draws we’re against purely a value range. And a passive players value range is tighter than most.

What value bets do we beat here? Passive players are unlikely to bet trips on a 3 to a straight board preferring to check call. But any Qx that might get here that we beat are few and far between.

We can fold here and not feel bad about it. We should feel terrible about the rest of the hand though.

so i should have been more aggressive with this hand post flop to try to take the hand down earlier due to all the draws? would you have bet the river?
 
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Gabe16

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so i should have been more aggressive with this hand post flop to try to take the hand down earlier due to all the draws? would you have bet the river?



We don’t mind calls while the odds are we have the best hand and have a board with draws on. We raise the flop and charge more to compound our opponents mistakes. So we need to estimate the most we can charge without losing them.

Although isolating one caller might be desirable.
 
Bozovicdj

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Pre flop is fine.Now on the flop, both call and raise are equally fine.
If you call (as you did), you are letting pre flop aggressor the chance to barrel it on the turn, and also you are giving good odds for the BB to call and see the turn. Consider that player on the BB has a huge range of hands there, so he can have any Ax and most of the fours (like 54, 64 both suited and not), which he would (or should) fold to a 3bet on the flop.
On the other hand, if you raise, it is more likely that both your opponents will fold, in which case you actually lose a lot of value imo.
As played, on the turn it is imperative to raise, however, I would suggest a bigger raise, yours was less then 1/2 pot, and I would make it around 2/3 of the pot.
I like the river, many players tend to shove in your spot, but call is very good because several draws got there like AK, 89spades, also most of the queen hands that BB can have, made a boat like QT, QJ, not to mention the slow played TT or JJ. Also, his play really looked like trapping especially once he had bet the river (it really looks like someone who made a hand, and doesn't want to lose value by checking), so I guessed he had a Q (personally thought he had an AQ), but would still call like you did.

I would like to add one thing: if villain had checked the river, I would suggest checking behind. If you were to raise, you would only get called/re-raised with hands better then yours while other hands would most likely just fold, so no need to risk it. You would have showdown value so use it.

P.S. welcome to CC and gl at the tables :)
 
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Gabe16

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Pre flop is fine.Now on the flop, both call and raise are equally fine.
If you call (as you did), you are letting pre flop aggressor the chance to barrel it on the turn, and also you are giving good odds for the BB to call and see the turn. Consider that player on the BB has a huge range of hands there, so he can have any Ax and most of the fours (like 54, 64 both suited and not), which he would (or should) fold to a 3bet on the flop.
On the other hand, if you raise, it is more likely that both your opponents will fold, in which case you actually lose a lot of value imo.
As played, on the turn it is imperative to raise, however, I would suggest a bigger raise, yours was less then 1/2 pot, and I would make it around 2/3 of the pot.
I like the river, many players tend to shove in your spot, but call is very good because several draws got there like AK, 89spades, also most of the queen hands that BB can have, made a boat like QT, QJ, not to mention the slow played TT or JJ. Also, his play really looked like trapping especially once he had bet the river (it really looks like someone who made a hand, and doesn't want to lose value by checking), so I guessed he had a Q (personally thought he had an AQ), but would still call like you did.

I would like to add one thing: if villain had checked the river, I would suggest checking behind. If you were to raise, you would only get called/re-raised with hands better then yours while other hands would most likely just fold, so no need to risk it. You would have showdown value so use it.

P.S. welcome to CC and gl at the tables :)



Hi man,

Doesn’t V’s range capping c/c turn line negate AQ largely?

I dropped it there.

What do you think to a bet fold line on the river if V checks?
 
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wilywiles

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In this situation this is what we call losing the minimum so in the end you played it right. Just a bad beat. Dont let it wear you down.
 
Bozovicdj

Bozovicdj

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Hi man,

Doesn’t V’s range capping c/c turn line negate AQ largely?

I dropped it there.

What do you think to a bet fold line on the river if V checks?


I don't really see why would it. So many players nowadays don't like raising AQ (or AK even) OOP, cause it is generally hard to play from early positions post flop. Also, would you raise the turn if you had AQ on BB position? I personally wouldn't, cause I want the player4 to continue to bet on the turn. Don't forget, player 4 was the pre-flop agressor, had c-bet the flop against 2 players, so as the player on the BB, I would guess he would do that on the turn as well - therefore, check/call the turn, as it also gives me some pot control, where I don't need to lose all my money to a better Qx.


In case villain checked the river again, I would just check, trying to get to a cheap showdown. Hypothetically, if I was to bet the river, would always call the re-raise mostly based on the remaining stack, and the chips I already involved into the pot.
 
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MrMontanaRC

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thanks for the advice, when i seen the j on the river i felt too many draws hit there thats the reason for my call behind, if the river had of been a brick i would have tried to get it all in. if i remember right his AF was pretty high so i decided to let him take the lead thru the betting.
 
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