$2 NLHE 6-max: Weird over bet on river

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RamdeeBen

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Villian : 51/36

Villian was active but weak player, would fold lots of c-bets but call,call,call pre flop..

We got chips all in with my Kings vs his A,J. I hadn't been overly aggro previously so assumed he must be extremely fishy to be wanting to call my shove with A,Jos


Soooo...I made a standard 3xpre and expected a call. Maybe I should of bet larger anyway he donk min bets me. My first thought is to 4bet him but given the stack sizes it leaves me committed in calling the turn/river and with the board texture I planned to c/f the turn depending on his bet and the turn card of course. I check, he snap checks so I think surely any Ace/King is betting here?

So when the river comes a blank I thought about check/folding a river value sort of bet but then he over bets the pot and I'm sat pondering wtf...maybe I should of bet differently.

I just feel this bet is a bluff from a sort of Q,x,J,xconnted cards or some other weird line or maybe even smaller pair on the board but I can't see what betting this much does on the river and can't work out his line..

Thoughts?? Is a call out of the question here or do we just muck?

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

BB ($1.79)
UTG ($0.81)
MP ($1.68)
Hero (CO) ($4.91)
Button ($1.59)
SB ($1.79)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7
heart.gif
, 7
club.gif

2 folds, Hero bets $0.06, Button calls $0.06, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.15) 6
club.gif
, A
diamond.gif
, K
heart.gif
(2 players)
Hero bets $0.07, Button raises to $0.14, Hero calls $0.07

Turn: ($0.43) 5
spade.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks

River: ($0.43) 4
diamond.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $0.60, Hero ??
 
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baudib1

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Tend to fold here, feel like there are going to be better spots as this guy isn't a vault.
 
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BlueNowhere

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I'd fold, overbets from donks in my experience tend to be for value too much too call. Your raise sizing in all your threads pre tends to be too small.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Tend to fold here, feel like there are going to be better spots as this guy isn't a vault.

Yeah I thought fold here too, just his weird line..

I'd fold, overbets from donks in my experience tend to be for value too much too call. Your raise sizing in all your threads pre tends to be too small.


It depends, just because it's micros people say raise more PRE, like 4x/5x etc...now I don't dispute that they call still but my standard open is x3, I will mix it up sometimes but as a rule I just like the 3x.
 
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BlueNowhere

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Yeah I thought fold here too, just his weird line..




It depends, just because it's micros people say raise more PRE, like 4x/5x etc...now I don't dispute that they call still but my standard open is x3, I will mix it up sometimes but as a rule I just like the 3x.

If you are raising pre for value then why do you advocate 3x raise instead of larger? SnG and MTT 3x is fine, I'd raise bigger in micro-cash like always.
 
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RamdeeBen

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It's just what I've been used too and just automatic. Don't get me wrong, I mix it up and will 4x as well as 2.5x and 5x etc its just my common "norm" amount.
 
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BlueNowhere

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I'd guess thats because you've come from a non-cash background (I think). How you doing in cash since you've started playing that?
 
dooydoo

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if you think he is folding a lot to cbets then betting here is ok. But my question is why did you call his raise? You will turn a set about 4% of the time which is almost never and chances are you wont get to showdown for free after the flop. I think you should just fold there and wait for a better spot. This guy will give you his money but this spot is way to marginal.

on the river i would xf and take a note that he can overbet the river after he raised you on the flop.
 
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RamdeeBen

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I'd guess thats because you've come from a non-cash background (I think). How you doing in cash since you've started playing that?


7500 hands in. Just shy of $30.00 7.80bb/100..IT's going ok. Its a lot easier for my time, quite often it gets to late in MTT's or I have to go out lol.


Amount Won in USD over Hands Played for ramdeebam

Frustrating...you forget people don't fold under pairs to bluffs or easily repping top pair they just love to call so just have to be more patient I guess. Apart from that, seems very easy at the minute.

That big dip you see, it was vs the same Canadian guy. He took 5 buy-ins of me, he was so so so bad I got each hand cracked all-in vs him and I had the best hand each time so frustrating but didn't tilt surprisingly and managed to stay cool and win back 2.5 of my buy-ins back lol.


if you think he is folding a lot to cbets then betting here is ok. But my question is why did you call his raise? You will turn a set about 4% of the time which is almost never and chances are you wont get to showdown for free after the flop. I think you should just fold there and wait for a better spot. This guy will give you his money but this spot is way to marginal.

on the river i would xf and take a note that he can overbet the river after he raised you on the flop.

I called his raise because he was a bad player in general and the fact he donk min raised, I was quite sure I had the best hand and then when he checked the turn, I was quite sure he was on a draw of some kind..
 
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NoOneYouKnow

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Calling the flop raise is really bad. You have no value and no equity. Callig the river over bet is just spewing money.

I think you are over thinking it. Make tpgk, bet bet bet. Don't bluff catch with an underpair when the fish is replying strength...
 
dooydoo

dooydoo

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You said that he folds to a lot of cbets and seems to call call call alot. Now the first time this guy raises, you call with an underpair on a AK high flop. You are totally going against your reads here. I would be thinking snap fold.

According to your history you cbet and he min raised so he didnt donk raise you.

Just because he is bad doesnt mean you should call with very weak hands when he shows strength. The point of bad players is to exploit them in very +ev spots and avoid these marginal spots. You will get paid off massively in those good spots so theres not point in playing these bad spots.

Aother tip is that a min raise by a bad player doesnt mean weakness. If you think with their mindset and logic, a min raise is strong very very often.

I dont think that a min raise on the flop and x on the turn mean weakness either. A common line with bad players is to 'keep you in' with small raises or xing to the river. Once they get to the river they realize 'oh snap, i still have 95bb left in a 5bb pot, i guess ill shove or overbet to get missed value'.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Calling the flop raise is really bad. You have no value and no equity. Callig the river over bet is just spewing money.

I think you are over thinking it. Make tpgk, bet bet bet. Don't bluff catch with an underpair when the fish is replying strength...

We have really bad equity when a guy who plays 50% of hands donk min raises /calls down etc? So, you think a guy like this is "checking" the turn really? By the way, we are getting nearly 7-1oddsto call his raise..
 
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