Originally Posted by WVHillbilly
Let's think this through.
You think your hand is best and you have position. Why do you want to make him fold by raising or shoving?
Good points. The thing is because his bet is so large that if I call this street it kind of commits us anyway in most cases and because I think he has an under pair I don't want to get away anyway, but obviously I could be very wrong here and he have over cards/over pairs. He's either going to call my shove here or check/fold the turn/river. I just think either way calling/shoving has the same result as he's either getting away from his under pair by check/folding the turn so we gain no more money by just "calling" his bet + he might think I'm mega weak by just shoving the flop with any overs or any under pairs?
Anyway, what's your line in this spot? What do you do personally if faced with this?
Originally Posted by Deco
Raising will fold out worse and only get called by better allowing him to play perfectly.
Call or fold. It's a very strong line but a pretty dry board. I think I'd hazard a call and fold to further betting.
Yeah..I know this but lets face it, if we know he's going to check/fold the turn for example isn't it better to get the chips in on the flop? This leaves us with more chances of getting his chips. One being that he can think we are shoving with over cards or there's a high chance he calls of his chips with his smaller pocket pair.
I beg to differ when you say it's a "very strong line" He min bets our raise pre he then over bets the flop..If I had Kings/Aces or even A,Q on this flop, you could bet smaller if your wanted to be called. If he's over betting because he's scared (A,x / niddle pairs etc) then sure we could well call but I think even for a player like this, unless he hits his ace or a set he's highly likely to check/fold turn/rivers almost everytime.
He knows we aren't floating with air by calling(This looks far to strong on, much stronger than shoving), at least with shoving it can look weak(bluff), can also look like over cards or like in my case a pocket pair, he could look us up as trying to steal and call of behind with his pair. You would seriously consider calling his massive over bet, to then fold the turn/river? Why not just fold the flop seems like massive spew to "call"
I just don't think he's putting more in the pot on the turn/river with an underpair/over cards unless he hits. I can't ever imagine him betting so much on this dry board with A,Q / Jacks +
Is my reasoning floored?