$2 NLHE 6-max: to smooth call or raise?

B

beckyg89

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Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $1.03 USD ) - VPIP: 0, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, hands: 1
Seat 2: Player2 ( $5.52 USD ) - VPIP: 0, PFR: 0, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 2
Seat 3: Player3 ( $2.74 USD ) - VPIP: 27, PFR: 9, 3B: 4, AF: 0.5, Hands: 66
Seat 4: Player4 ( $4.21 USD ) - VPIP: 100, PFR: 50, 3B: 0, AF: 4.5, Hands: 4
Seat 5: Player5 ( $2.30 USD ) - VPIP: 24, PFR: 14, 3B: 4, AF: 1.1, Hands: 72
Seat 6: Hero ( $1.99 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 14, 3B: 7, AF: 1.9, Hands:
Player2 posts small blind [$0.01 USD].
Player3 posts big blind [$0.02 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ac Kh ]
Player4 raises [$0.04 USD]
Player5 folds
Hero raises [$0.15 USD]
Player1 folds
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Player4 calls [$0.11 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ Ks, 5s, Qs ]
Player4 bets [$0.16 USD]

Is there any value in raising right here? I think not as I'm probably not folding out any flipping hands like A of spades x and i'm often getting called by better.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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No value in raising. Your hand doesn't really have a ton of equity (you're about 65% against random 2 cards in villain's range), and the stack to pot ratio is still a little small for stacking 1 pair worry free. I'd look to get committed on most turns.
 
Trabendo_daze

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I think the key is being in position here. We can make it to showdown pretty easily when we do have the best hand and we don't have to worry about getting outplayed too much when we don't. I'd call and evaluate turn. His donk seems pretty polarized to small flushes, ace of spades, and KQ. Maybe sets too? I just can't see him doing this with a better or worse hand that folds to a raise.
 
mbrenneman0

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No value in raising. Your hand doesn't really have a ton of equity (you're about 65% against random 2 cards in villain's range), and the stack to pot ratio is still a little small for stacking 1 pair worry free. I'd look to get committed on most turns.

its a sample of 4 hands, so we really have no idea what villain's range is. could be a super-nit with some lucky hands...

I think id call here, and if any spades come on the turn or the river then im check/folding if a 4th spade comes down. definitely looking for any excuse to get off this hand as cheaply as possible.

top pair top kicker really isnt that great of a hand. its good against an isolated opponent with a wide range, or on uncoordinated flops, but we dont have any idea what villains range is here and this is a horrible flop for us.
 
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BPEPFPDP

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bad spot at all, mono flop crashes any hopes for value, plus villain unknown i'd try played it smooth witout agression if villain raise - call, and hope for cheap showdown, but if he fired again - i'm gonna fold here, tons of FD, sets, KQ also... honestly i got alot bad expirience with only TPTK.
 
6

6bet me

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Definitely flat-call this flop. Raising and folding are both terrible options. Remember that he donked out on the flop, so he isn't necessarily that strong (I'd say he most likely doesn't have a made flush).

Therefore, I'd be inclined to flat-call the flop then make a large raise on any non-spade turn card, unless the villain shows a lot of strength by barreling a large amount (more than 70% pot on the turn), of which case I'd just flat-call the turn. If the turn is a spade, then I'd just check/fold.
 
Beanfacekilla

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Donk bets are usually weak/vulnerable/drawing hands. If villain flopped a flush, we wouldn't expect him to take this line. I usually just punish these players, but this situation is somewhat different.

However, villain probably does have a flush draw, maybe with a pair, or some SD+FD combo hand. We could play this one of three ways....

1. We flat, and just let him keep betting. We call, unless a spade rolls off (my best guess of what V actually has, a FD and maybe a pair too. He may also have some combos of J-10o, A-10o, with one spade). If we call the flop, we will re-assess on the turn. Villain probably does have equity vs. us. There are other hands as well, I'll get to that...

2. We raise, get ready to play a big pot, and encounter some nasty variance. This option allows us to get full value for our hand IF villain has pair+FD or a combo draw. This option also allows for biggest losses. And our hand is really not that great here. There are many cards we don't want to see on the turn, or river. So if we raise, we have to have a good read.

3. Just call down, assuming no nasty turn/river cards peel. This option allows villain to bet all the way to river with inferior hands, and he will have no idea where he is in the hand.


I probably just call, and see what villain does on the turn. If he donks weak again, and the turn is unlikely to help him, maybe then we punish him.

However, we must remember, donk bets usually indicate weak/vulnerable hands. Villain could have some 2p hands in his range as well. Most people who donk bet are trying to set their own price, they don't want to be raised (but they usually don't fold easily). It is like a defensive bet. They are trying to slow you down. The point being, some of villain's donk betting hands may actually be beating us already (like K-Q). How to proceed is based on reads, and thank goodness we have position...

Donk betting really is a terrible strategy against strong players. I honestly don't know why so many people donk into their opponents. It is like a fish trend that's sweeping the nation (or planet). When a villain does this to me, 90%+ they are weak. Smart players will use donk bets against you once in a while.

And just for good measure, let's put ourselves in villain's shoes. What does he think we have? Does he think?

So yeah, just call, and see what V does on the turn. If the turn is a brick, we could consider just moving in or at least raising (if he bets weak again), and getting V to call with that FD or combo hand, when he has lost a ton of equity. However, on the flop we have about $1.85, and if we call, we have $1.60ish. Villains bet on turn would likely be around 30 cents, maybe a little more. So if we raise, we are pretty much committing ourselves, and then we have an awkward river bet size left. If we raise the turn, we could well just shove for max FE. It is possible we even fold some better hands, but not likely seeing how deep villain is.


I think out of all the things I discussed, call down mode is probably what I like most. Villains range really is pretty wide, and we can narrow it using position, and future bets on later streets. We keep the pot small, keep his air in, etc. But if we take this line, we must not pay off if the dude gets there. For example, if a spade rolls off, and the dude bets much harder, he probably got there. If a straight card gets there, and he bets hard, he probably got there. He will let you know if he improved, based on how he bets. You just have to be hip to the signs.


This is indeed a tricky spot, worthy of thought and discussion.

If anyone has anything more to add, I'd love to hear it. This HH made me really think.
 
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