$2 NLHE 6-max: Is river a clear fold?

BluffMeAllIn

BluffMeAllIn

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PokerStars - $0.02 Ante $0.01 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 248.5 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: -, hands: 1)
BB: 101.5 BB (VPIP: 66.67, PFR: 44.44, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 9)
UTG: 206 BB (VPIP: 26.67, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 75)
MP: 201 BB (VPIP: 45.33, PFR: 32.00, 3Bet Preflop: 17.24, Hands: 80)
CO: 705 BB (VPIP: 25.38, PFR: 16.87, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 675)
Hero (BTN): 299.5 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, 6 players post ante of 0.5 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 4.5 BB) Hero has T:heart: T:spade:

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, CO raises to 10.5 BB, Hero calls 10.5 BB, fold, fold, MP calls 7.5 BB

Flop: (36 BB, 3 players) Q:diamond: 9:heart: 6:club:
MP checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: (36 BB, 3 players) 5:heart:
MP bets 23 BB, fold, Hero calls 23 BB

River: (82 BB, 2 players) Q:heart:
MP bets 79 BB, Hero calls 79 BB
 
duggs

duggs

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I think turn looks like a fold, river is a definite fold.
 
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Frozrbyte

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Just based on his stats, I'd probably be calling him at the river too because it is very likely that you have the best hand as villain seems to be very aggro. What is his fold to 3bet stat like? And what type of hands did he go to showdown with? What was his bet sizing at the river before showdown? These are all factors I take into account before calling.

He could be taking the initiative and betting out with AK, AJ, KJ, JJ, 88-99 since it got checked down on the flop. It is possible he may have a queen or turned a flush draw.

I think I would've bet on the flop when it got checked down instead of just guessing at the river.

Overall, the river call is fine in my opinion based on the stats provided. Your hand was underrepped. To me you played it like AK so he may be trying to get you off a weak hand. So I think you might be ahead more often than not
 
vinylspiros

vinylspiros

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yea river looks pretty much like a clear fold. it feels like he has a set and hopes u have the Q. Cause if he has the Q here,i doubt his sizing would be that big to get worst hands to call. Fold river.
 
Aces2w1n

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Bet the flop for value.... If you don't bet these flops you should be folding preflop or your just burning money.

I understand if we had 22-66 type hand but TT has show down value and a lot of hands will call so a bet on the flop is for value.

Hands that we want value from will be flush draws/2nd pair/straight draws and even any lower pocket pairs may call.

We want to bet the flop and be happy if we take it down then... if people call at least we have position for the turn.

.......................


Now villains can be aggressive with draws or not... Either way these guys have a problem with their hand if they are checking the flop.

Having messed up the flop makes the turn card so much more difficult and we can't even represent anything like a flush


..................

4bet light with TT and bet the flop and your sure to win the pot :) If the villain calls he has the Q or overpair.
 
duggs

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dont 4bet, dont bet flop, why do people assume that both villains have air? CO capped himself but MP is uncapped
 
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Frozrbyte

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dont 4bet, dont bet flop, why do people assume that both villains have air? CO capped himself but MP is uncapped

I won't 4bet either.
I don't assume that both villains have air but I'm assuming that MP villain thinks hero is weak. Villain is super loose aggressive and at 2NL, a check or a call is often seen as weakness by super aggressive players at microstakes.
I would of course take into account of other factors such as his betting patterns and hands he showed down with to justify calling. But with limited info provided, I don't think it is that bad to call. There is nothing wrong with folding either.

But I will definitely bet the flop. If you get reraised and folded, you would've lost much lesser. You would've been able to control the pot size too if he just called.
 
akaRobbo

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yea river looks pretty much like a clear fold. it feels like he has a set and hopes u have the Q. Cause if he has the Q here,i doubt his sizing would be that big to get worst hands to call. Fold river.

I think you're giving some villains too much credit and on a different level to them when you say about him not bombing river with a Q. I think it's possible vil has a Q, makes trips and goes 'uhh trip Qs I must bet big'. Your logic is right about getting value from 3 Qs with boats but I think a lot of 2nl players overplay good hands and don't even consider what they're wanting to get their opponent to call with.

Re the hand, river is a snap fold. Turn is meh
 
Theromeo2k

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I agree with what Frozbyte said the most. I like the cold call pre IP because we get to keep the wide LAG kid in and if we hit a set it's going to be very disguised and might potentially win a bigger pot. 4balling it is also fine if you wanna take initiative vs the CO guy who seems to be a decent guy trying to iso the fish and could certainly have hands like QTs, KJo, ATo, Medium PP, etc. But I like calling more than 4betting because we're IP mostly and our hand has some versatility in a lot of flops and it is much more profitable than 4betting.

Deff bet flop. CO pretty much never has a Q here and if he has JJ he might fold right now or on the turn depending how weak he is. Also, betting here is better because we control the pot and find out some sort of info about our main target MP and can easily get value from 9x, gutters, the main OESD and ton of worse hands that this guy is playing. That's a lot of combos that we can get value from right there.

As played, calling the turn is totally fine as long as you plan on calling pretty much a reasonably sized bricked river. And that Q does count as a brick because the board and our decision doesn't change here, + the chances that he has a Q and is beating us now is less likely. We were either beat or we were ahead. The problem with calling here and folding river is that we pretty much put money in blindly without any info on where the villain might be at as opposed if we had bet OTF and bet turn, then we would've had a clearer river decision.

River call is fine as long as you've seen SDs from this guy and have seen that he's capable of putting pressure vs weak ranges (which is what we have in this spot). If you haven't seen enough yet, then folding is totally standard and better at these stakes. However, I think the main mistake was made OTF in this hand.
 
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