$2 NLHE 6-max: QQ facing turn shove from unknown

I seem to get myself into these messes and yet I never really know what to do when it happens...

The flop isn't the greatest flop and still I feel compelled to have to bet it out (yet they led out on flop), so I then rr them on the flop, and they still called...

(2nd hand at the table BTW)

Then when the board pairs, and they over bet jammed (this is where I get lost/confused/bewildered), as the shove looks more like they have a 10 and are making it look bluffy...

Yet the only 10 that even adds up to calling flop (after donking out of flop is 10Jo+10Js)? Other then this I don't know what the hell donk over bet shoves besides either a made hand (yet if the hand was made, then money should've been in on flop correct)

Am I ever good enough to snap call this or am I beat?


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, €0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB (€2.01)
BB (€0.98)
UTG (€1.94)
MP (€2.58)
CO (€3.89)
Hero (Button) (€1.97)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q , Q
2 folds, CO calls €0.02, Hero bets €0.10, 2 folds, CO calls €0.08

Flop: (€0.23) 8 , 9 , 10 (2 players)
CO bets €0.06, Hero raises to €0.20, CO calls €0.14

Turn: (€0.63) 10 (2 players)
CO bets €3.59 (All-In), Hero?

I really want to call, JQ is only 5 combos and the ten ott makes it less likely he has one, worst case he has T9 or a set and we have 2 or 5 outs but I think he shoves enough stupid shit to call. I prob cry when he turns over a house or AT in game though lol

orangepeeleo said:

I really want to call, JQ is only 5 combos and the ten ott makes it less likely he has one, worst case he has T9 or a set and we have 2 or 5 outs but I think he shoves enough stupid shit to call. I prob cry when he turns over a house or AT in game though lol

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Yet T9+sets would they not be 3 betting our rr on the flop?

What I'm asking is would 2 pair+ really call us?
Same with JQ would that also just flat a rr on the flop and jam turn?

second hand at the table is first problem. You are blind at how to play this hand from the start cause of your lack of playing time on table. Second problem is your creating a lot of betting with a pair. If you are going to play hand with just a pair you really need to know what your opponent has cause so many combos beat you. Dont over play over pair's. I dont see you being a head in this hand from the flop, once turn comes off what hope do u have? You played hand good and made right decision to fold

Yea, I'm thinking there are way more hands that are beating you than hands that you are up. What is he jamming on that turn that you beat? We don't know how we plays so we can't automatically assume he would be spazzing. He could definitely be doing this with 88,99,TT,JT,JQ,AT,9Ts. All of these hands you could reasonably expect him to flat call pre. I doubt he is doing this with draws as he probably would have shoved after your flop bet since this turn didn't help any draws. He wouldn't have open limped JJ. So I'm not sure what we are beating here besides the occasional spazz/bluff...folding is good here. (sorry for the runon post)

Its 2nl 6m, they do open limp JJ and they will do stupid shit thinking that lagtard is the way forward, the fact that he open limps itself is enough to make me think he's a fish, we have blockers to a lot of draws and outs ourself if we're wrong, this doesn't seem to me like the snap fold everyone else seems to think it is.... Could be wrong though

orangepeeleo said:

Its 2nl 6m, they do open limp JJ and they will do stupid shit thinking that lagtard is the way forward, the fact that he open limps itself is enough to make me think he's a fish, we have blockers to a lot of draws and outs ourself if we're wrong, this doesn't seem to me like the snap fold everyone else seems to think it is.... Could be wrong though

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The outs are significantly less relevant because we are getting the shittiest odds in the world. We're getting worse than 1.4:1 on a call, which means we need to win more than 41.6% of the time for this to be profitable.

We're basically drawing dead to trips, especially since we've already said that JT is a pretty likely hand here. I haven't plugged any ranges into pokerstove but I don't think this is a call. I think he has to be spazzing a lot here for this to be a good call. And while yes it LOOKS somewhat spazzy, I don't like making huge call downs with no player info. It's just such high variance, given no info/reads, and it's a pretty big call down when we don't have all that much invested.

In other words, folding is definitely not a mistake, whereas calling very well could be, so at the table I fold without more info.

And btw peel I agree that the fact that it's $2nl 6m means you can allow for some spewiness but without seeing at least SOMEthing out of line happen before I'm not willing to call down my whole stack to an enormous overbet shove.

If I have time I'll plug some stuff into pokerstove later though.

nobody else thinks raise size OTF is far too small?

Let him take it. I think you invested too little to call that. Take a better spot this not clear at all. I would make a call if he is super idiot and if Im sure that he did that outta frustration.

JCgrind said:

nobody else thinks raise size OTF is far too small?

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I wouldn't go toooo much bigger, though I think bigger might actually be fine. I just noticed how tiny the initial flop bet was. Don't think I'd go bigger than 30c though.

JCgrind said:

nobody else thinks raise size OTF is far too small?

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Well I really don't feel too comfortable to raise alot on the flop (especially when I'm unsure on the flop where my hand strength so by a smaller raise size I can somewhat see where I stand in the hand)...

Yet they flat and auto shoved A.I on turn, so I was really confused as to what's the right play here...

Yet as everyone is stating a fold is the correct play here

The more you raise on the flop, the more correct calling is. Fold is def good here tho

JCgrind said:

The more you raise on the flop, the more correct calling is. Fold is def good here tho

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So I understand by raising more on the flop we get better odds to call, the turn shove, correct? Then how much should we raise on the flop? .50-.70? Seems kinda excessive, don't you think, especially against an unknown?

im raising to at least 35

In my experience when someone donk bet so little on flop its 90% draws and and when he shoves he is rep a ten and hoping you fold cause he would not over bet pot like that with nuts.
I could be wrong but do u call if u know he is on a draw?
What happened did u fold??

JCgrind said:

The more you raise on the flop, the more correct calling is. Fold is def good here tho

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ditto