$2 NLHE 6-max: Possible bet sizing mistakes?

micromachine

micromachine

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Here is a hand I played yesterday against an unknown villain. Should I have shoved the flop? Is my bet sizing wrong? My thinking on the turn was to bet smallish to avoid scaring him off...

Poker Stars - $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em (6 players)
Poker Stars Hand Converter Tool from CardsChat.com

SB: $1.64
BB: $2
UTG: $1.94
MP: $2.54
CO: $1.81
BTN Hero: $2.18

Pre-flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN and dealt :10c4: :kc4:
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, SB calls $0.05, BB folds

Flop: ($0.14) :7c4: :4c4: :10h4: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.10, SB raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.74) :7c4: :4c4: :10h4: :kh4: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.20, SB calls $0.20

River: ($1.14) :7c4: :4c4: :10h4: :kh4: :9h4: (2 players)
SB bets $1.08 (All-in), Hero calls $1.08
 
R

RVladimiro

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TPGK + FD, yep, I'd probably shove. Given the flop action I'd bet around 0.50 to leave a very small bet behind on the river.

On the other hand when I'm IP I like to call and wait for their reaction if it's a fish since they'll do something dumb like shoving Q4 in this board. That line only makes sense if he slowplayed the turn (which is also weird considering he did c/r the flop).

But he is unknown... so... I don't know. If he was a reg I'd shove or fold depending on what is calling range is. If it's pairs, that would be a set and a easy fold. If pairs + SCs... well... I'd shove and expect to be ahead.

Not easy though, just throwing some thoughts.
 
bgomez89

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Why are you betting such a small amOunt on the turn?
 
micromachine

micromachine

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Why are you betting such a small amOunt on the turn?

Because I think I have the best hand and I don't want to scare him off. Bad play I know...should have just done a 3/4 pot I think.
 
bgomez89

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What hands did you not want to scare him off of
 
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baudib1

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I don't hate it, some people will spazz to this sizing on the turn.
 
Nathan Williams

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I would just 3bet the flop and get it in. As played bet much more on the turn. At stakes like this there is never any need for any fancy type plays. Just bet strong with your value hands and they will call.

"Scaring them off" is a myth. If anything, bigger bets make them think you are bluffing and want to play back at you even more.
 
bgomez89

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3betting the flop seems bad to me. Why do you want to do that?
 
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RVladimiro

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I would just 3bet the flop and get it in. As played bet much more on the turn. At stakes like this there is never any need for any fancy type plays. Just bet strong with your value hands and they will call.

With all due respect, isn't 3betting KTs from BB and getting it in against a unknown quite a fancy play? I can imagine some better stuff folding but what worst shoves?
 
alaskabill

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With all due respect, isn't 3betting KTs from BB and getting it in against a unknown quite a fancy play? I can imagine some better stuff folding but what worst shoves?

He isn't saying 3 bet pre flop. He is saying 3 bet the flop.
 
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baudib1

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It's not going to be a huge mistake to get it in on the flop here, but a couple things to note about this spot:

1. This c-r smells like BS
2. Nonetheless, his top range crushes us.
3. Try not to isolate yourself vs. the top of someone's range.
4. We don't need fold equity when we have toppest of pairs -- be more inclined to 3-bet with 98cc.

This is definitely a spot to keep someone's range as wide as possible, because if he has air and draws he's likely going to bluff a lot into us when we make our flush.
 
ben_rhyno

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3bet flop to $1 and ship the turn, or just ship the flop for value. Flatting the flop and then almost minbetting the turn just signifies a hate for money
Edit: We have around 49.5% vs AA on this flop, and If someone could stove our hand vs sets, 2 pairs, overpairs and other draws (OESD, FD's) I'm pretty sure this is an easy 3bet
 
micromachine

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baudib, you were right in thinking his c-raise smelt like bs...

He had QJo and made his straight on the river so I should definitely have bet much more on the turn, I think everyone agrees with that

I'm still not sure whether shoving the flop would have been +EV or not though
 
jbbb

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I think flatting the flop is ok b/c as I think baudib said a lot of the c/r are gonna be bs and we want him to fire again on the turn which he could well do being OOP. Also if you flat the flop it's still easy to get it in by the river because of the PSR is low. Bet like .55 on the turn and the river plays itself.
 
T

ThePokerGoon

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ring games are free for alls at these stakes anyway. always try to get in on the flop, especially with a hand as strong as the one you had.
 
micromachine

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ring games are free for alls at these stakes anyway. always try to get in on the flop, especially with a hand as strong as the one you had.

I wouldn't say that is true. There are plenty of fish but not everyone is a complete maniac :D people do fold, especially to shoves, which is obviously -EV if you want them to stay in with a worse hand.
 
c9h13no3

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Three betting the flop seems bad to me. If we're reraising the flop, we're essentially saying that villain:

-rarely bluffs in this spot.
-is value cutting himself with a worse top pair often
-will fold Tx that we beat if scare cards come on the turn and river
-will call with worse draws

I'm not sure that any of those things are true.

-its a btn vs. blind spot, so he will be playing back at us with air/bad semibluffs.
-I dont think 2nl players usually play a hand like JT this fast.
-I dont think an ace or a club gets him to fold a ten (maybe both?)
-Im not convinced he calls a shove with naked straight or flush draws.

On the flop we have medium strength showdown value, and a dominating draw. I'd prefer to keep villain's range wide, until its time to get stacks in.

Also, 55c on the turn please.
 
Nathan Williams

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There is nothing wrong with just calling the flop here as well. Just need a bigger bet on the turn, which I think everybody agrees on.

I've had a lot of success at these stakes by just fast playing the crap out of my big hands. It is shocking what they will call with sometimes (any piece a lot of the time). And especially against an unknown, I just assume that they are bad.
 
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