$2 NLHE 6-max: pair plus fd combo gets shoved on on the flop

B

beckyg89

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Seat 1 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $3.58 USD ) - VPIP: 14, PFR: 9, 3B: 0, AF: 3.0, hands: 98
Seat 2: Player2 ( $2.08 USD ) - VPIP: 25, PFR: 19, 3B: 0, AF: 2.5, Hands: 16
Seat 3: Hero ( $4.63 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 14, 3B: 7, AF: 1.9, Hands:
Seat 4: Player4 ( $1.82 USD ) - VPIP: 30, PFR: 24, 3B: 14, AF: 2.0, Hands: 33
Seat 5: Player5 ( $2.29 USD ) - VPIP: 33, PFR: 25, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 12
Seat 6: Player6 ( $1.50 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 12, 3B: 3, AF: 3.3, Hands: 223
Player2 posts small blind [$0.01 USD].
Hero posts big blind [$0.02 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ 8c Tc ]
Player4 folds
Player5 raises [$0.06 USD]
Player6 folds
Player1 calls [$0.06 USD]
Player2 folds
Hero calls [$0.04 USD]
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8d, 3c, Ac ]
Hero checks
Player5 bets [$0.12 USD]
Player1 folds
Hero raises [$0.43 USD]
Player5 raises [$2.11 USD]

Now that i think about it is this a good spot to c/r? what worse am i really getting to fold? anyways as played when he shoves i did end up calling but when i ran the numbers i think im a bit -ev here assuming a tight shoving range of 33 88 ac a8 kq of clubs. i need about 39 percent and against that range im drawing to about 35 percent. depending if i throw in a buunch of xx of clubs and ax i might be close to break even but i think its a fold is that correct
 
mbrenneman0

mbrenneman0

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yeah, really not a fan of this hand. he's probably not calling you with anything less than a pair of aces or a high pocket pair.

I think check call, or maybe check fold, but i think folding pre might be the best move here. you might have good implied odds if you complete your FD, but I really wouldnt bank on your 8s being good against anything that he's going to call your check raise with. (EDIT: now that i think about it, he is shortstacked, so you might not even have implied odds because he probably wont call if another club comes out, unless he makes a better flush.... in which case...)
 
TimovieMan

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You have a lot of equity on the flop and an insane number of outs, but with his preflop aggression and with that A on the board, this is a good spot to just call and hope to improve.

You want to go to town with a hand like this if you make top pair, or are drawing to the nuts / also have an overcard. Ac8c on a Kc8d3c would be better, for instance.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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1) 3-bet pre. Playing draws out of position is gross, and villain raises a non-nitty range preflop (good target for a 3-bet if he can fold).

2) Check/raise is fine. When he c-bets into 2 players, his range is strong enough that getting to showdown & using your middle pair for showdown value is pretty tough. Calling is tough because getting paid off on your flush is harder out of position.

3) Your two pair outs are likely good, your range is way too tight. Call & flip with him.
 
Beanfacekilla

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1. Fold or 3b pre (I like folding). We are doing things the hard way being OOP.
2. As played, I don't like the c/r OTF. We put ourselves in the cage now. We rarely have the best hand when called. And if V shoves, whoops.
3. As played, we have to call roughly $1.70, to win $2.84. The only way a call could be correct is assuming V has a 1p hand. If they have 2p+, we are a pretty big dog. So I guess it comes down to reads here. Considering board texture, I think it's difficult for V to have 2p, but I suppose he could have a set with AA or 33. I think it's fair to say his range is pretty much 1p hands. This is exactly why I don't like the C/R, now we are in a spot to be flipping (at best) for 100 BB. We didn't have to play a pot this big, and we shouldn't be playing OOP with these cards.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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2. As played, I don't like the c/r OTF. We put ourselves in the cage now. We rarely have the best hand when called. And if V shoves, whoops.
So you prefer calling? We know a check/raise is going to be +EV (even if high variance). Our two pair outs are pretty well disguised, but it'll be tough to get implied odds OOP.
 
Beanfacekilla

Beanfacekilla

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So you prefer calling? We know a check/raise is going to be +EV (even if high variance). Our two pair outs are pretty well disguised, but it'll be tough to get implied odds OOP.

I prefer not even being in the spot in the first place. I dont like playing napkins OOP (yes I know its 6-max).

As played, yes I like calling. We keep all V's air hands in (like naked FDs), keep pot small, and don't have to puke when V shoves here.

As for getting paid off if we hit, like you said, we have well disguised 2p and trips out as well.

The whole spot just sucks anyways. We should be folding pre. I hate playing OOP with junk hands.
 
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