$2 NLHE 6-max: Kings facing over bet river shove..

Is this just a standard fold?

I don't have much history on villian but these "call,call,call,instashove river" usually means we are beat right?

I'm guessing he can't just bluff considering my aggression..even though I hate folding here. It's not like he value bets the river to try and get me to pay him off considering I have been showing aggression..then surely I would? Why shove me can this possibly be a bluff? I've seen crap like this before at micros..because it's "just $2.00" as they say..

Are we ever good, or is this sooo villian dependant? I can't see being good much here unless they are absolute spew tars.

I feel it's a A,5 hand who flopped the nuts as I can't see "calling" down with any over pair then shoving the river to be a standard line here.

Is the bet sizing ok? Should we ever be checking the 8 on the turn or should we always bet here?..then obviously river action is usually what?

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

BB ($5.41)
Hero (UTG) ($2.53)
MP ($3.42)
CO ($2.03)
Button ($2.09)
SB ($6.09)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K , K
Hero bets $0.06, 2 folds, Button calls $0.06, 1 fold, BB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.19) 3 , 2 , 4 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.16, 1 fold, BB calls $0.16

Turn: ($0.51) 8 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.38, BB calls $0.38

River: ($1.27) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $4.81 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $1.27 | Rake: $0.04

I call we only have $1.59 behind making weaker overpairs doing this quite feasible. Ax/5x busted draws could also be bluffing.

I'm assuming villain is an unknown?
The usual fear co-ordinated boards give us are wide selection of twopair/straight hands. 234 is much less of a threat as 24/23/34 are not played as often as higher hands and we even lose a 16 straight combos as there's no two lower card straights.

Deco said:

I call we only have $1.59 behind making weaker overpairs doing this quite feasible. Ax/5x busted draws could also be bluffing.

I'm assuming villain is an unknown?
The usual fear co-ordinated boards give us are wide selection of twopair/straight hands. 234 is much less of a threat as 24/23/34 are not played as often as higher hands and we even lose a 16 straight combos as there's no two lower card straights.

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You think we are good enough then yeah? I considered just shoving the turn because I had a feeling any sort of crappy river card is going to get me to fold. Sure it pairs...but I can't help thinking it seems very nut like..when he just shoves like that.

Do you think shoving the turn is an ok line to take or not?

Totally unknown villian was. I had timing tells which made me feel he had the nuts he snap called each street and insta shoved the river, like within a second..which kind of made me think he has to have the nuts here..

ramdeebam said:

You think we are good enough then yeah? I considered just shoving the turn because I had a feeling any sort of crappy river card is going to get me to fold.
Do you think shoving the turn is an ok line to take or not?

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No I don't like it. You should be trying to get as much value as possible. You beat the vast majority of his range on the turn. 4x overbetting the turn is terrible as we'l lose plenty of weaker pairs and straight draws.

Don't make a -EV move just to make life on the river easier for yourself.

Deco said:

No I don't like it. You should be trying to get as much value as possible. You beat the vast majority of his range on the turn. 4x overbetting the turn is terrible as we'l lose plenty of weaker pairs and straight draws.

Don't make a -EV move just to make life on the river easier for yourself.

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Ok, well should we be making the turn bet smaller/bigger then because when you get shoved on the river, I don't want to feel I need to call because of odds..

I ended up folding..but I wonder if there was anything different I could of done here ?

i would bet big bet big shove in normal circumstances but when he leads out the river like that im not happy. Dont make your bet sizes smaller because 9/10 times you will be getting stacks in as the best hand and you want to get as much money as possible. If you start making it smaller you will end up making less money in the long run.

it doesnt make sense to me based on board texture.

i would fold til i knew better. most of the time they will end up with something very strong here liek A5 or 8x somehow, A8 maybe.

ramdeebam said:

You think we are good enough then yeah? I considered just shoving the turn because I had a feeling any sort of crappy river card is going to get me to fold. Sure it pairs...but I can't help thinking it seems very nut like..when he just shoves like that.

Do you think shoving the turn is an ok line to take or not?

Totally unknown villian was. I had timing tells which made me feel he had the nuts he snap called each street and insta shoved the river, like within a second..which kind of made me think he has to have the nuts here..

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I'm my experience snap call each street is someone trying to appear strong so generally weak/drawing. If he was trying to trap with a monster they generally take a whilst thinking what to do. quick call makes me want to barrel 3 streets. Well at least that seems to be the general rule HU, seems logical cash would be similar. Strong (quick check because they want you to think they aren't folding because they don't want any more barrels) is weak, weak (acting like they have a decision to make when only one is raise or call) is strong.

BlueNowhere said:

I'm my experience snap call each street is someone trying to appear strong so generally weak/drawing. If he was trying to trap with a monster they generally take a whilst thinking what to do. quick call makes me want to barrel 3 streets. Well at least that seems to be the general rule HU, seems logical cash would be similar. Strong (quick check because they want you to think they aren't folding because they don't want any more barrels) is weak, weak (acting like they have a decision to make when only one is raise or call) is strong.

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Ditto

ramdeebam said:

Ok, well should we be making the turn bet smaller/bigger then because when you get shoved on the river, I don't want to feel I need to call because of odds..

I ended up folding..but I wonder if there was anything different I could of done here ?

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You don't want to adapt your line to the rare likelihood villain overbet shoves the river. Your sizing should be based on what will value town him best and nothing more. The sizing you used seems fine to me.

Yeah I'm not going to fold this. This seems like a standard spaz at 2nl

Calling this all day long at 2nl.

We only need to be good ~35% here and we're good WAY more often than that. I do a little happy dance and call.

bgomez89 said:

Yeah I'm not going to fold this. This seems like a standard spaz at 2nl

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Really? I'd tend to agree I just went more for feeling. I felt only a set or a,5 type of hand is going to call 2 streets and insta shove the river with the nuts or close to the nuts. I just felt two pair isn't very good..

dwbrown7680 said:

Calling this all day long at 2nl.

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eeeek. Are you not more inclined to fold at 2nl though based on even the worse players can't seem to think someone showing aggresive pre/post/turn is weak enough to get of their hand?

WVHillbilly said:

We only need to be good ~35% here and we're good WAY more often than that. I do a little happy dance and call.

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You seriously think we are good here then yeah?

Maybe I just play backwards...and seem to play for stacks in positions where people say I should be folding and folding where people seem to think it's an easy call.

BlueNowhere said:

I'm my experience snap call each street is someone trying to appear strong so generally weak/drawing. If he was trying to trap with a monster they generally take a whilst thinking what to do. quick call makes me want to barrel 3 streets. Well at least that seems to be the general rule HU, seems logical cash would be similar. Strong (quick check because they want you to think they aren't folding because they don't want any more barrels) is weak, weak (acting like they have a decision to make when only one is raise or call) is strong.

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Agree with the timing bank,shoving with the nuts etc. However, I also believe if someone flops the nuts they insta call,call,shove the nuts because they are super excited.

I myself have been guilty of plays myself where if I hit a set or something, my thought is if villian bets "I just call" don't even look at the size how much is left behind etc, just snap it of because I know I'm good then insta shove river so not sure..

ramdeebam said:

You seriously think we are good here then yeah?

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We're certainly good here more than enough to make calling better than folding.

Also, meant to say something earlier but forgot, open for at least 4x. Forget 3x ever existed until you move up at least 2 levels. You can actually make it even larger if you have a read that a certain player will call with worse but I'd recommend never going smaller than 4x at 2nl/5nl and I'm not just talking about with the top of your range.

WVHillbilly said:

Also, meant to say something earlier but forgot, open for at least 4x. Forget 3x ever existed until you move up at least 2 levels. You can actually make it even larger if you have a read that a certain player will call with worse but I'd recommend never going smaller than 4x at 2nl/5nl and I'm not just talking about with the top of your range.

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+1

ramdeebam said:

Agree with the timing bank,shoving with the nuts etc. However, I also believe if someone flops the nuts they insta call,call,shove the nuts because they are super excited.

I myself have been guilty of plays myself where if I hit a set or something, my thought is if villian bets "I just call" don't even look at the size how much is left behind etc, just snap it of because I know I'm good then insta shove river so not sure..

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Yea some exceptions do exist but the general population quick call weak and slow call strong.