$2 NLHE 6-max: JJ Faces Re-Raise on River

Creepy Jackalope

Creepy Jackalope

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pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com/

BB ($5.56)
Hero (UTG) ($2.79)
MP ($5.09)
CO ($2.24)
Button ($0.47)
SB ($5.01)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J
diamond.gif
, J
spade.gif

Hero raises to $0.07, MP calls $0.07, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.17) 10
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, 3
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, 4
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(2 players)
Hero bets $0.12, MP calls $0.12

Turn: ($0.41) 4
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(2 players)
Hero bets $0.33, MP calls $0.33

River: ($1.07) 5
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(2 players)
Hero bets $0.63, MP raises to $4.57 (All-In), Hero ??


I really don't have too much else to say about this hand. Does this stink of TT or an overpaid better than my JJ..

Is he bluffing missed draws or over-playing top pair often enough to make this a call?
 
B

byrnsiey330

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Doesn't look like a bluff to me. Too many hands that beat you. I would fold.
 
T

twohaha

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Do you have some kind of read on this opponent? Usually, this is a pretty strong play, some kind of slowplay, or 2 outer on the river, so I would also fold on the river
 
John A

John A

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If you think your opponent is capable of bluffing then you shouldn't be betting here unless you're planning on bet / calling. If you're unsure, then it's better to c/c or c/f on this kind of runout because not much worse is calling at these stakes.

Any ways, it's a pretty easy river fold as played. I just think at these stakes, people will fold a lot of strong hands, and may fold Tx and other mid pairs, so not sure what you think you'll be getting value from on the river.
 
Karozi615

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your river bet was sort of small, I could see why somebody would think a jam would get through
Unfortunately I think you just have to fold
 
Creepy Jackalope

Creepy Jackalope

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your river bet was sort of small, I could see why somebody would think a jam would get through

This is interesting.

Admittedly I didn't put a whole lot of thought into the river bet at the time. A bet that size though let's him call with his T hands and maybe even an AK? But I think you're right... assuming that a 2NL player would typically be using that type of logic.. which maybe isn't the case very often?

I think I would have preferred a c/c here maybe as another poster suggested.
 
W

Wardy88

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I think the river bet is good, thin value is how we make all the money at these stakes. Villain is call-mucking a lot of their Tx hands and pairs 66 through 99.

When villain shoves they have polarised their range. We need to decide if this villain is capable of turning whatever hand they flatted two streets with into a bluff on the river.

IMO very few players at this level have the ability to turn marginal hands into a bluff, which rules out the majority of villains range which is flatting for value.

Any draw that we might think villain had on the flop and turn has got there by the river, or made a middle pair.

I believe we can confidently fold this and move on to the next hand.
 
Arjonius

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Does this stink of TT or an overpaid better than my JJ..
The odor doesn't seem especially strong. QQ+ could have 3bet pre-, raised the flop or raised the turn. Calling TT pre- is certainly possible, but he could have raised either the flop or the turn. Having other possible lines decreases the likelihood he played these hands this way.
 
U

Ubercroz

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I have a hard time seeing this as a better hand.

What hand does this? Not a better Pocket Pair. A thinking player is not raising like that here, because the hands that call are super thin. So if it is a thinking player it is likely a bluff.

If this is a non thinking player then the hands are something like A4, A5, AT, KT, 44-99, 56, 78, QT that turned a flush draw, and probably more.

Which means he could be doi g this with a hand that crushes us, but more likely a hand that we beat.
 
Figaroo2

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Reads reads man. Do we have any villain stats or notes at all. The all in on the river is polarising to max value or big bluff. Without reads I might fold but what are you going to do if he floats you this way again a few hands later? With a dollar already invested here I might be tempted to look him up. There is some chance he is bluffing and if he isnt then the information itself will be valuable for the future. Whatever you decide make sure you note his line against him.
 
H

hffjd2000

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His move is a shark move.
Many fish are swimming here.
Believe him.
 
S

SwiftHax

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He could've easily improved to a full house from a set on the turn and continued slowplaying or rivered a full house with pocket 5s. Even if he's doing it with overpairs you're beat. Fold and save some money, he's very unlikely bluffing.
 
Arjonius

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He could've easily improved to a full house from a set on the turn and continued slowplaying or rivered a full house with pocket 5s. Even if he's doing it with overpairs you're beat. Fold and save some money, he's very unlikely bluffing.
It's not just a question of what he might have that beats us, but rather of his entire range, how our hand fares vs. that range after we weight the probabilities of the various holdings in it, and the pot odds.
 
dj11

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Stinks to high HAVEN (pun intended) that he's bluffing.

IF he has a 4 he might play it this way, but the big bet on the river will chase most folks out,,,,,,,thus I figure no 4

A big5 or bigT might come along as he did, and make a big river bluff knowing he's putting the screws to you but his sizing is terrible for value purposes, but does give him outs if you decide to call with mid pair or a smaller 5 or T.

So my logic says we only worry about TT, QQ, KK, AA hands and in each of these cases, Its hard to believe (not really that hard a 2nl) that villain holds till the end for the big non value raise.

Other considerations is at 2nl, anything can and does happen, as posted the only read we have on villain is his stack size. This is a shame, any read would be helpful in determining which part of the general population this villain fit into.

I call his bluff here. Knowing full well I could be dead wrong, but liking my logic process thru and thru.
 
S

SwiftHax

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It's not just a question of what he might have that beats us, but rather of his entire range, how our hand fares vs. that range after we weight the probabilities of the various holdings in it, and the pot odds.
I just don't see much he could have that we actually beat. A10?

Also, how do you use pot odds in these situations? Does it look something like calculating his hand ranges and our equity, then using the pot odds to determine whether it would be a profitable call or not?
 
Arjonius

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I just don't see much he could have that we actually beat. A10?
Is it inconceivable that he has other hands with a T? Or club draws that missed and now he's bluff-shoving?

Also, how do you use pot odds in these situations? Does it look something like calculating his hand ranges and our equity, then using the pot odds to determine whether it would be a profitable call or not?
The decision here involves estimating the probabilities of the various holdings in his range, so it's really a question of EV rather than just pot odds. And no, I wouldn't expect to be able to do this level of math at the table, so in practice it's about how much feel you have for what the math would tell you if you could take the time to do it.
 
chory1414

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very rarely a bluff imo time to fold.
 
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SwiftHax

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Is it inconceivable that he has other hands with a T? Or club draws that missed and now he's bluff-shoving?
He's a complete fish then to bluff-shove on the aggressor at 2NL. People are calling too often here.
 
Nathan Williams

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Even though there is no information about the player type given you are beat here nearly all of the time. Players at NL2 do not raise triple barrels without the nuts.
 
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ericfeung

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i don't think JJ is a strong hands.but in NL2 ,i will all in at preflop, or raise to $1, you raise to 0.07 is too small. in this case , i think fold is a good choice, MP may got 55.
 
D

DunningKruger

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You're pretty much never good here unless he's some kind of tard (which isn't impossible I guess). You've put over 40% of your stack in the middle to find this out so if anybody wonders about the value of position this is a good hand to point to.
 
Arjonius

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He's a complete fish then to bluff-shove on the aggressor at 2NL. People are calling too often here.
So there are no complete fish at NL2? I'm not saying it's likely he's bluff-shoving, but rather asking if the probability is low enough not to consider it at all.

And the same can be asked about other hands with a T.
 
T

taas

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Easy fold. There are a lot of hands that will beat you.
 
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Dikkas

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I would fold aswell, not much to think there
 
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