$2 NLHE 6-max: Interesting flop with ATo

Played this pretty interesting hand on $0.01/$0.02. Gonna put some different decisions in some different posts. To begin with: c-bet or no?

Some villain info: BTN seemed to be fairly solid. SB was a big fish that played way too many hands.

Flop is really interesting. Nut flush draw and middle pair. I think I definitely made a mistake at this point - really no idea why but I thought I had nut flush draw + top pair, which would've made it a pretty trivial bet. But looking at it afterwards this seems to be a perfect hand to check back - I've got very good showdown value already and this way I have the Ac in my checking back range as well which is good. Also it should hit the flatting range from the BTN and SB pretty well.

On the other side, I wanna put as much money into the pot as possible for if I hit my hand, and I've got pretty strong two pair and trips draws to go with it. I should be quite comfortable with getting a lot of money in on this flop. So maybe this bet is justified?

Wonder what you think.

pokerstars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

BTN: $4.30
SB: $1.00
BB: $2.00
UTG: $1.51
MP: $2.73
Hero (CO): $1.97

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with A :club: T :heart:
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.06, BTN calls $0.06, SB calls $0.05, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.20) 9 :club: J :club: T :club: (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.13

I think you need to update ur settings on the cards... make it colour so you can easily tell the diff.

Also you need to have a plan here. Some questions
What type of player your up against
Will my opponent make folds on the turn if i whiff and i double barrell.
Will i get paid off if my flush hits?
So i make mistakes and get carried away when i hit trips... often this wont be the best hand on this wet textured board.
Why do i want the pot big??
Am i better playing this passive until i hit? So perhaps fish will pay you on later streets regardless.

Anyways gl

Aces2w1n said:

I think you need to update ur settings on the cards... make it colour so you can easily tell the diff.l

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This wasn't the problem and it never is. Just two people talking me at the time while multi-tabling. I can assure you I read everything correctly 99.9% of the time, this was an exception. Thanks for the tip though.

Aces2w1n said:

What type of player your up against

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SB will call with a lot of big clubs and will put a lot of money in when he hits. BTN seems fairly solid and won't get out of line too much.

Aces2w1n said:

Will my opponent make folds on the turn if i whiff and i double barrell.

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BTN yes. SB no. As played I wanna go to a showdown cheaply though I think.

Aces2w1n said:

Will i get paid off if my flush hits?

Click to expand...

BTN no. SB yes.

Aces2w1n said:

So i make mistakes and get carried away when i hit trips... often this wont be the best hand on this wet textured board.
Why do i want the pot big??

Click to expand...

Good point. Two pair and trips draws are just back-up though, for if one of the villains decide to call with the likes of QJ, JT, J9, T9... All those kinda hands. Obviously wanna go to a cheap showdown once I hit two pair or trips.

Aces2w1n said:

Am i better playing this passive until i hit? So perhaps fish will pay you on later streets regardless.

Click to expand...

Not as much though.

You seem to lean towards check and I think I agree. Thanks for your comment.

You answered the questions and came up with an answer yourself

Glad you took the time and answered them one by one.
Wasnt expecting that but im glad you did and its great to see first hand.

Thanks.. made my day

Just beware making the pot big now... means we will be facing bets on the turn.

Worst thing is drawing to the nuts and investing money and getting thrown off our hand.

Multiway pot means easily for someone to have us crushed already as well. So we are no doubt behind

Any bet now is a bluft

Looks good so far. What happens next?

Omahahahaha said:

Looks good so far. What happens next?

Click to expand...

Want some popcorn?

Part 2. Next level hand analysis, this.

Flop: ($0.20) 9 :club: J :club: T :club: (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.13, BTN calls $0.13, SB raises to $0.30, Hero ?

So yeah, here's the peculiar spot we got ourselves into by betting. BTN cold flats and SB clicks it back. At this point BTN has $1.78 behind and SB has $0.64 behind.

I don't think folding is an option yet with the price we're getting. It's basically a choice between call and raise. There is the risk of a re-squeeze from the BTN when I call, but I don't think that's too likely considering he only called my initial bet. At this point we're pretty much sure we don't have the best hand, so we could turn our hand into a drawing hand and just take the price we're getting and flat hoping for a club.

Or we could raise (which would probably mean shove at this point), get some equity of the BTN out and be heads-up against the SB for the pot with at least decent equity.

At this point I don't think the BTN will really be able to call shoves - he isn't slowplaying the nuts and the flat call smells like something in the range of QcJx or KcJx. Maybe KQ, but even then he would be in a tough spot facing all this action. KQ with a club he would probably call. Which could be a problem.

Against even a mildly aggressive opponent that's likely to bet at least half the time I'd actually opt for a check raise. Especially if they are competent as they'll see this as a very very strong move. Your well sat to hit any club ace or ten if they call, and may already have the best hand.

17 to win 63 so 3.5:1. Actually this is a little bit interesting because four of our outs put a 4 card straight flush on the board, making our hand the effective 2nd or 3rd nuts. For example if the turn is the 8c, then our hand is more like the Qs of an 2s 4s 6s 8s board because there are two different 1 card combos that can beat us. So we should discount the 7c, 8c, Qc and Kc and count them as only half outs. So if we count our outs as 7, instead of 9, then we are about 5.2:1 against improving and getting 3.5:1 pot odds. But we are also in position with a decent amount of money left to bet. So we have a slightly profitable call.

So the pot is 0.76, SB has sets,str and made flushes, he has 0.64 behind you have around 31% equity when shoving against him and probably no fold equity.

EVshovevsSB = 0.31* 1.4 - 0.69* 0.64 = +-0

We probably have about 6.5 outs for flush giving calling and hitting flush 13%
EVcall = 0.13*0.76 - 0.87*0.17- = -0.05 = - 2.5bb

Now if there is any chance (there should be) SB calls anything after hitting the flush just calling against him is obvious choice. Unfortunately I don’t know how to adapt against BTN in play, but we could assume he folds if you shove, thus shoving always have zero EV. However if you only call he probably calls his Kc and Qc also increasing our EV.

I assume the hand continues by you calling and 8s hitting the board =) and BTN scooping the pot.

The pot is only .46

You need to add SB's 0.3 to that.

ParagonPoker said:

Against even a mildly aggressive opponent that's likely to bet at least half the time I'd actually opt for a check raise. Especially if they are competent as they'll see this as a very very strong move. Your well sat to hit any club ace or ten if they call, and may already have the best hand.

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Feel a bit awkward about this move. The fact that I 'may already have the best hand' makes it more of a check-call imo. And if we're behind, we always have room to improve.

Omahahahaha said:

17 to win 63 so 3.5:1. Actually this is a little bit interesting because four of our outs put a 4 card straight flush on the board, making our hand the effective 2nd or 3rd nuts. For example if the turn is the 8c, then our hand is more like the Qs of an 2s 4s 6s 8s board because there are two different 1 card combos that can beat us. So we should discount the 7c, 8c, Qc and Kc and count them as only half outs. So if we count our outs as 7, instead of 9, then we are about 5.2:1 against improving and getting 3.5:1 pot odds. But we are also in position with a decent amount of money left to bet. So we have a slightly profitable call.

Click to expand...

braveslice said:

So the pot is 0.76, SB has sets,str and made flushes, he has 0.64 behind you have around 31% equity when shoving against him and probably no fold equity.

EVshovevsSB = 0.31* 1.4 - 0.69* 0.64 = +-0

We probably have about 6.5 outs for flush giving calling and hitting flush 13%
EVcall = 0.13*0.76 - 0.87*0.17- = -0.05 = - 2.5bb

Now if there is any chance (there should be) SB calls anything after hitting the flush just calling against him is obvious choice. Unfortunately I don’t know how to adapt against BTN in play, but we could assume he folds if you shove, thus shoving always have zero EV. However if you only call he probably calls his Kc and Qc also increasing our EV.

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Both comments definitely make sense and are very insightful, thanks. One of those spots that make poker beautiful.

Soooo... I ended up shoving. I recklessly thought the BTN basically couldn't call this ship with his flatting range, so I was quite surprised when he snapped it off. And there was the huge pot.

SB called as well.

braveslice said:

I assume the hand continues by you calling and 8s hitting the board =) and BTN scooping the pot.

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I like the prediction. I like the outcome more.

Flop: ($0.20) 9 :club: J :club: T :club: (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.13, BTN calls $0.13, SB raises to $0.30, Hero raises to $1.91 all in, BTN calls $1.78, SB calls $0.64 all in

Turn: ($4.96) A :heart: (3 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($4.96) A :spade: (3 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $4.96
BTN shows Q :diamond: K :club: (a straight, Ten to Ace)
SB shows 8 :club: 3 :club: (a flush, Jack high)
Hero shows A :club: T :heart: (a full house, Aces full of Tens)
Hero wins $1.88
Hero wins $2.91
(Rake: $0.17)

braveslice said:

You need to add SB's 0.3 to that.

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No, uncalled bets are not yet part of the pot. Actually the pot is .59 (.13 * 3 + .2).



Note that both the queen and seven of clubs were not actually outs for you given your opponents' hands.

lol nice runout

Omahahahaha said:

No, uncalled bets are not yet part of the pot. Actually the pot is .59 (.13 * 3 + .2).

Click to expand...

What you say doesn't make sense, and I tried to figure out a long time what you mean. Of course you need to opposite of uncall first to stay in the game, for that you need to for sure count all the money in the table. Only partial explanation I came up was that if I bet, villain folds, only money before your bet is calculated to pot.



Maybe you could demonstrate your current method for calculating:
River: pot 100
You have 40% equity
Villain bets 80
What is your EV?