$2 NLHE 6-max: If the turn would be different, is it still a fold?

BoddJonar

BoddJonar

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pokerstars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

Hero (Button) ($0.77)
SB ($2.20)
BB ($2.02)
UTG ($7.95)
MP ($1.76)
CO ($2.55)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J
spade.gif
, Q
spade.gif

1 fold, MP raises to $0.04, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.04, SB calls $0.03, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.14) K
diamond.gif
, Q
club.gif
, J
club.gif
(3 players)
SB checks, MP checks, Hero bets $0.14, SB calls $0.14, 1 fold

Turn: ($0.42) K
club.gif
(2 players)
SB bets $2.02 (All-In), Hero folds

Total pot: $0.42 | Rake: $0.01

Results below:
SB didn't show

So my question here is if the turn would be different... Let's just say something like a 7... Is it still fold in this situation?
I mean this IS micros....
And yeah, I should have 3betted preflop I know.

Cheers
 
teepack

teepack

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It would be hard to fold that with a different turn. I think the fold was the proper call after the K hit. I hate it when you flop two pair and then the turn pairs up the other card when it is a higher card.
 
H

Henreiman

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Obviously it does depend on the turn, but if it is a complete blank and he shoves we probably have to call.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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Whether it would have been better to 3bet pre- is situation- and/or opponent-dependent. What you should do is play a full stack.

As for other turn cards, that's somewhat situational too. Part of the difficulty is that because of your stack, it's not very bad for him to shove something modest if he thinks he has decent fold equity vs an opponent whose stack size carries some suggestion of timidity.
 
John A

John A

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Based on your stack size, yes, different turn and you're always stacking off. As is, no info on opponent at all?
 
BoddJonar

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Whether it would have been better to 3bet pre- is situation- and/or opponent-dependent. What you should do is play a full stack.

As for other turn cards, that's somewhat situational too. Part of the difficulty is that because of your stack, it's not very bad for him to shove something modest if he thinks he has decent fold equity vs an opponent whose stack size carries some suggestion of timidity.

Ah, I wonder how many people at theese levels think at that level!
Theese situations occur alot and I've just recently learned to fold them.

Based on your stack size, yes, different turn and you're always stacking off. As is, no info on opponent at all?

Nope, no info at all. ZOOM table and only PT3, and no previous notes.

Cheers
 
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Wardy88

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Ok first off I'm not sure why we are sitting with 40bb? we want deep stacks against poor opponents so that our better decisions equal more money.

I think flatting behind is ok here, I'm 3 betting with a deeper stack but I have no clue how to play short stack in cash game haha.

Betting .14c is good here looking to get stacks in against calling stations.

When villain donk over jams the turn I think its safe to say we are beat, and can fold.

As for if it was a different turn card then we need to ask ourselves how likely is it that villain would realise that they may be able to maximise their fold equity against us by putting us all in while minimising their actual dollar risk, in other words they can put maximum pressure on us for only .59c in order to win a pot of .42c, if they believe that we are capable of folding QJ then this is a hugely profitable play.

The issue is that I don't think many people at these stakes would ever expect QJ to fold and thus making it less likely that villain would make this play with nothing.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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Simple ez fold on the turn. Flush/straight/Book is out there... simple.

What hands we beat.

Stupid bluff. Qx. Jx. we don't even beat AK anymore :( or AQ Different turn where the board isn't paired it looks slightly better but depends if a club is out.
 
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Ronoh

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Ah, I wonder how many people at theese levels think at that level!
LOVE this statement... this is something I've been trying to beat into people's heads for ten years. You are playing NL2... quite literally PENNY POKER. 3rd level thinking doesn't work here guys, your opponents are just playing cards.
 
U

Ubercroz

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LOVE this statement... this is something I've been trying to beat into people's heads for ten years. You are playing NL2... quite literally PENNY POKER. 3rd level thinking doesn't work here guys, your opponents are just playing cards.

That is not particularly high level thought that is being posited. Whether or not you should 3bet against certain players is not really buy in specific.

Even players at very low buy-ins will fall into certain habits. Everyone will have kind of a natural pattern they fall into. They may deviate from it from time to time, but across a large enough sample size these patterns will reveal themselves. You don't need third level thinking to be able to play against an opponent and put them on a range. Just second level. What do I have and what do I think he has (based off his habits and his range). Using that information you can determine if you have fold equity or not.
 
Arjonius

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LOVE this statement... this is something I've been trying to beat into people's heads for ten years. You are playing NL2... quite literally PENNY POKER. 3rd level thinking doesn't work here guys, your opponents are just playing cards.
I agree it's not uncommon for people to think too much at 2nl and have posted many times to KISS at this level.

That said, 2nl is also not short of players who over-value their hands as well as players who love to (semi-) bluff shove against smaller stacks they think they can scare into folding. So even assuming only first-level thinking, it's an over-generalization to assume everyone just plays their cards and does so properly.
 
Aces2w1n

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I agree it's not uncommon for people to think too much at 2nl and have posted many times to KISS at this level.

That said, 2nl is also not short of players who over-value their hands as well as players who love to (semi-) bluff shove against smaller stacks they think they can scare into folding. So even assuming only first-level thinking, it's an over-generalization to assume everyone just plays their cards and does so properly.


On the weekend I find ppl get too fancy. During the week the regs and players tend to tighten up.
 
Arjonius

Arjonius

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On the weekend I find ppl get too fancy. During the week the regs and players tend to tighten up.
In general, I agree. However, it's 2nl. Quite a few regs, while not having leaks to the extent that weekenders do, are still pretty mediocre, even fishy. Maybe I should, but to be honest, when I sit at a table, I don't go in expecting a meaningful difference on a weekday vs weekend.
 
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