$2 NLHE 6-max: Could I not have checked TPTK on this board on the turn to get more?

$2 NLHE 6-max: Could I not have checked TPTK on this board on the turn to get more?

I thought about this hand afterwards (maybe betting out on the turn was not actually a good idea)...Could I not have checked turn (More then likely they'd have checked back on the turn also), but then bet out on the river to get more? Would that not have been a better play?





poker stars $2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1940194
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

MP: $2.04 - VPIP: 36, PFR: 13, 3B: 2, AF: 3.5, hands: 116
Hero (CO): $8.86 -
BTN: $3.83 - VPIP: 65, PFR: 9, 3B: 6, AF: 1.5, Hands: 74
SB: $0.48 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 1, 3B: 0, AF: 1.0, Hands: 102
BB: $3.24 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 16, 3B: 0, AF: Infinity, Hands: 37
UTG: $5.72 - VPIP: 54, PFR: 49, 3B: 13, AF: 4.7, Hands: 35

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with A :spade: Q :spade:
UTG raises to $0.06, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.26, 3 folds, UTG calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.55) 2 :spade: 3 :heart: Q :diamond: (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.36, UTG calls $0.36

Turn: ($1.27) 3 :diamond: (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.72, UTG folds

Final Pot: $1.27
Hero wins $1.23
(Rake: $0.04)

This player is a monster-fish. Even over just 35 hands you can be pretty sure he is not good. TPTK here is basically the nuts. I don't really see a point to checking back the turn without a read.

When he calls the flop he is either floating or has some sort of SDV type hand (mostly PP), or Qx. When he flats the 3bet and check calls the flop I would weight his range decently heavily toward PP rather than Qx.

If he has a mid PP it's unlikely that checking the turn and betting the river will pay you more often or better than betting turn betting river. If he has Qx you are going to get 3 streets of value. So by checking the turn you give up a lot of potential value imo for the times he has something he's not willing to give up.

Just bet every street for value whenever you can against this player. Against a thinking reg you might want to check the turn back to go for 2 streets of value on the river vs. his 88-JJ but against this guy just valuebet him to death.

IMO check flop back, then lol as he pots turn, I take my time and flat and lol harder when he pots river and i raise him. Super aggro fish checks a dry as hell flop when I have TPTK, I say it's trap time

JCgrind said:

IMO check flop back, then lol as he pots turn, I take my time and flat and lol harder when he pots river and i raise him. Super aggro fish checks a dry as hell flop when I have TPTK, I say it's trap time

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LOL I honestly did think about doing this, but the problem with that was A) when I raised pre (every time I rasied pre, I would cbet Irregardless with+without the nuts, and I got caught like 2 times)...So I figured checking back/acting weak here would send a message of strength no?

naruto_miu said:

LOL I honestly did think about doing this, but the problem with that was A) when I raised pre (every time I rasied pre, I would cbet Irregardless with+without the nuts, and I got caught like 2 times)...So I figured checking back/acting weak here would send a message of strength no?

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Why think so high level? He's a fish, see fish bite bait, pull the rod, simple. If he beats you, he just lucked out.
Aaaanyway, does he spaz at showing weakness and bluff happy? Some fish are lol

RodneyC86 said:

Why think so high level? He's a fish, see fish bite bait, pull the rod, simple. If he beats you, he just lucked out.
Aaaanyway, does he spaz at showing weakness and bluff happy? Some fish are lol

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actually he did, but against me for some odd reason (unless it was a multiway pots, he would'nt spazz out so I didn't know which approach is better)

If he's as aggro as he looks after those 35 hands, but he checks flop, and you've been cbetting 100%, I say go for it. Don't get me wrong, he's probably got no clue that you're cbetting near 100%, but he could easily try to raise you off a pretty dry board here. Not sure how spazzy-aggro he is.

naruto_miu said:

LOL I honestly did think about doing this, but the problem with that was A) when I raised pre (every time I rasied pre, I would cbet Irregardless with+without the nuts, and I got caught like 2 times)...So I figured checking back/acting weak here would send a message of strength no?

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no it wouldnt send a message of strength. this guys obv retarded, he sees a guy check and he thinks 'okay its bet time, cos people only dont Cbet (not that he knows the word Cbet) when they have nothing. note everyone else will be valuetowning and not bluffing him, so when he gets the PFR checking behind he can be virtually positive its not a hand- srsly who slowplays a fish? just watch. every time someone raises and checks back, watch as he snap pots the turn. literally eeeeevery single time. thats his thought process i promise

also, irregardless isnt a word yo. thats like a double negative. regardless grammar w my pokerstrats

RodneyC86 said:

Why think so high level? He's a fish, see fish bite bait, pull the rod, simple. If he beats you, he just lucked out.
Aaaanyway, does he spaz at showing weakness and bluff happy? Some fish are lol

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how is this high level thinking? we check because his thinking is so utterly non existent that this is how we own him. hes not the passive "call cos i have a pair or think i might peel one and it might be good" type fish, hes the "i have a pair and pairs are THE NUTS! slash, i dont have a pair but im going to rep THE NUTS so i can win this pot, bc winning every pot is what i do".
this is def the exact type of player that spazzes v weakness

Scourrge said:

If he's as aggro as he looks after those 35 hands, but he checks flop, and you've been cbetting 100%, I say go for it. Don't get me wrong, he's probably got no clue that you're cbetting near 100%, but he could easily try to raise you off a pretty dry board here. Not sure how spazzy-aggro he is.

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really? im sorry but no, he doesnt think 'omg boards dry, so vill cant have much- ill raise since this board missed a lot of his range'. not saying he wont spaz raise air here, but its more likely that hell pound away into weakness. if we bet and he raises, it kinda puts us in auto bluffcatch mode
since he cant have twopair here (i think lol), hes either checking bc he doesnt have a pair, or it must be nice to be him and he flopped a set. srsly if he flopped a set im going broke.

in all fairness though, this approach should warrant the 'if the board bricks out then why am i raising the river, hell only call w a better hand?'. but i think if he turns like a pair of 7;s or some stupid shit, hes back on the 'he cant have a queen... he checked!' (lack of) thought process.


i use two colour labels for completely retarded players. green = fish, ie he is loose passive, check calls, and when he raises i fold the 2nd nuts. then i have teal, and thats for spaz fish. he goes bananas with anything, bets for the sake of it, esp when weakness is shown.
This guys teal as ****.

EDIT: yo scourrge i just reread that, and it sounded rude so i apologise. didnt mean it to come across like that but its real late and i cbf rewording it lol. got every bit of respect for you as a poker player

JCgrind said:

really? im sorry but no, he doesnt think 'omg boards dry, so vill cant have much- ill raise since this board missed a lot of his range'. not saying he wont spaz raise air here, but its more likely that hell pound away into weakness. if we bet and he raises, it kinda puts us in auto bluffcatch mode
since he cant have twopair here (i think lol), hes either checking bc he doesnt have a pair, or it must be nice to be him and he flopped a set. srsly if he flopped a set im going broke.

in all fairness though, this approach should warrant the 'if the board bricks out then why am i raising the river, hell only call w a better hand?'. but i think if he turns like a pair of 7;s or some stupid shit, hes back on the 'he cant have a queen... he checked!' (lack of) thought process.


i use two colour labels for completely retarded players. green = fish, ie he is loose passive, check calls, and when he raises i fold the 2nd nuts. then i have teal, and thats for spaz fish. he goes bananas with anything, bets for the sake of it, esp when weakness is shown.
This guys teal as ****.

EDIT: yo scourrge i just reread that, and it sounded rude so i apologise. didnt mean it to come across like that but its real late and i cbf rewording it lol. got every bit of respect for you as a poker player

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Hey no worries, once I got past the "really?" it was fine Extreme respect right back atcha. I also trust your read of opponents more than my own, plus I can't remember the last time I ran into someone who would be that aggressive just b/c I checked a flop. Obv doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but I think I was discounting that possibility too quickly.

So I think I agree with you that checking the flop can be more +EV, but I don't think cbetting the flop is the biggest error ever either. I think I like checking the flop though because there aren't really any cards that freak us out on the turn where we are left scratching our heads because we know he bets his entire range but might have improved.

But yeah, think my original thought process was off, because I basically never encounter this type of player anymore - gotta stay sharp on that ^.^

Nh

Scourrge said:

Hey no worries, once I got past the "really?" it was fine Extreme respect right back atcha. I also trust your read of opponents more than my own, plus I can't remember the last time I ran into someone who would be that aggressive just b/c I checked a flop. Obv doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but I think I was discounting that possibility too quickly.

So I think I agree with you that checking the flop can be more +EV, but I don't think cbetting the flop is the biggest error ever either. I think I like checking the flop though because there aren't really any cards that freak us out on the turn where we are left scratching our heads because we know he bets his entire range but might have improved.

But yeah, think my original thought process was off, because I basically never encounter this type of player anymore - gotta stay sharp on that ^.^

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you still might be better off x3 barreling. but i think if you plan to check one street back, its better off being the flop than the turn, since the same amount of money goes in if he does nothing, K is the only scare card and i think theres much more chance that he spazzes if we run it this way

JCgrind said:

you still might be better off x3 barreling. but i think if you plan to check one street back, its better off being the flop than the turn, since the same amount of money goes in if he does nothing, K is the only scare card and i think theres much more chance that he spazzes if we run it this way

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Agreed. He's not too likely to spazz the turn when we bet the flop, and not nearly as likely to spazz the riv when we check the turn back. I like the flop check. You've convinced me