$2 NLHE 6-max: Bottom set, c-bet into 3 opponents, facing two calls and a raise

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Sam Powers

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HERO ($1.91)
BB ($1.70)
UTG ($2.81)
MP ($2.28)
CO
BTN

HERO dealt :2d4: :2s4:

preflop
SB posted, BB posted, UTG limps, MP limps, CO and BTN fold, HERO opens to $0.06, BB calls, UTG calls, MP calls.

flop ($0.23) :3s4: :2c4: :jh4:
HERO bets $0.15, BB calls, UTG calls, MP raises to $0.45, HERO?

notes: this was only my 6th hand at the table, and i had never played with either of these players before. no notes.
 
DougPkrMonsta

DougPkrMonsta

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Hero does anything but fold lol.

I think flatting and getting a raise in on the turn is standard.

Sometimes they will make a straight or have a higher set but you flopped a set and want value - try not to worry about results if it went badly. :)
 
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CardDead711

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I would raise or call, leaning more towards raising to isolate the MP. If he has JJ (which I doubt) or 33, then I'm beat, re-load, and move on. If MP is raising on a draw or AJ, then I make him pay to see the next card. Regardless, I'm not folding.
My question is why are you raising to .06 from the SB with limpers that will most likely call. With 22, I want to see a cheap flop and either hit my set, or miss and fold to a bet. 22 is not that strong to raise for 3BB, unless you were trying to raise to thin out the players, then you should have raised more, but I don't like that either due to your position and its 22.
Good luck.
 
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Sam Powers

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I would raise or call, leaning more towards raising to isolate the MP. If he has JJ (which I doubt) or 33, then I'm beat, re-load, and move on. If MP is raising on a draw or AJ, then I make him pay to see the next card. Regardless, I'm not folding.
My question is why are you raising to .06 from the SB with limpers that will most likely call. With 22, I want to see a cheap flop and either hit my set, or miss and fold to a bet. 22 is not that strong to raise for 3BB, unless you were trying to raise to thin out the players, then you should have raised more, but I don't like that either due to your position and its 22.
Good luck.

i was trying to thin out the playing field, like you said. Probably should have raised more though. And yeah limping to see the flop probably would be better with this hand in this position, thanks for the advice. but i do ask why you say that these limpers will most likely call? just because of the stakes im playing or is it something else?

just typing that sounds like a fish question, but imma fish... thanks for the help
 
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CardDead711

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Not a fish, good question, and I'm no pro either. I think all questions are good and we can all learn from our conversations. We all have a different approaches to this game, so these are my thoughts. I say that the limpers will call because: 1: the stakes are micro and they get to see a flop for 4 more cents. 2: This level has newer players, possibly, that will call more often because they don't know better. 3: the first caller only has to put out 4 more cents in to win 13, so that is better than 3-1, and the odds get better for every additional caller.
So like you said, you wanted to thin out the crowd, you needed to bet more to make the odds worse, scare them away, or whatever strategy you want to call it.
Hope this made sense and helps.
Good luck.
 
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RakeMyLife

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Not a fish, good question, and I'm no pro either. I think all questions are good and we can all learn from our conversations. We all have a different approaches to this game, so these are my thoughts. I say that the limpers will call because: 1: the stakes are micro and they get to see a flop for 4 more cents. 2: This level has newer players, possibly, that will call more often because they don't know better. 3: the first caller only has to put out 4 more cents in to win 13, so that is better than 3-1, and the odds get better for every additional caller.
So like you said, you wanted to thin out the crowd, you needed to bet more to make the odds worse, scare them away, or whatever strategy you want to call it.
Hope this made sense and helps.
Good luck.

Agree with this. At these stakes, preflop raises to thin the field have to be larger.

Post-flop...ship it!!
 
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Sam Powers

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so i should have raised it to about $0.10, giving him about 2-1 pot odds, $0.08 to win $0.17. would this have been more effective? or should it be even higher, considering if the BB does call then UTG gets 3-1?

I'm still just holding twos. which is more the reason to just limp. what do yall think
 
Aces2w1n

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probably best to call behind or even fold... why?
1. often players calling behind wont have absolute trash. they could have small pp that beat us.

2. position is crucial and often we will never know where we stand post flop unless we hit a 2 and even then itll be hard to get paid esp if no one showed strength.

3. we often run into a bigger set brcause thats the only hand thats going to give us action in this scenerio


.................
so if u want to raise tho

so generally x3 the bb then + a bb per limper etc


then post flop its a dryboard so he could have a set of jacks but there could be a ton of other stuff like qq kk some wacky aa. AJ all pocket pair ... straight draws... 2pairs.

we are doing extremely well but lets say a board 678 and we have a lot of people in the pot and we have botttom set... then we would start asking the question with a set esp with a lot of action.

or a super nit and the board went 2 A K
 
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Sam Powers

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probably best to call behind or even fold... why?
1. often players calling behind wont have absolute trash. they could have small pp that beat us.

2. position is crucial and often we will never know where we stand post flop unless we hit a 2 and even then itll be hard to get paid esp if no one showed strength.

3. we often run into a bigger set brcause thats the only hand thats going to give us action in this scenerio


.................
so if u want to raise tho

so generally x3 the bb then + a bb per limper etc


then post flop its a dryboard so he could have a set of jacks but there could be a ton of other stuff like qq kk some wacky aa. AJ all pocket pair ... straight draws... 2pairs.

we are doing extremely well but lets say a board 678 and we have a lot of people in the pot and we have botttom set... then we would start asking the question with a set esp with a lot of action.

or a super nit and the board went 2 A K

Thanks for the reply, i was thinking along the lines of your third point when i folded. "what type of hand raises this with so many callers to my cbet?" I came up with JJ, 33 and AJ. I left out QQ-AA cus in my opinion they flat call the flop. I figured im only beating AJ of those 3, so i folded, BB folded and UTG and MP tabled AJ and 33 respectively. Worked out in the end, but its more about how you play it than the outcome, guess im asking if my thinking was good here?
 
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braveslice

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Even if you know he has AJ,33,JJ you are still super favorite with 65% equity.

That is because there is 12 combos AJ {AdJd, AsJs, AcJc, AdJs, AdJc, AhJd, AhJs, AhJc, AsJd, AsJc, AcJd, AcJs} and 6 combos sets {JdJs, JdJc, JsJc, 3d3h, 3d3c, 3h3c}

Even if both BB and UTG have a J in hand, and A blocker you still have 50% equity:
You lose { 3d3h, 3d3c, 3h3c} and win { AcJc, AhJc, AsJc}

To find these easy try Equilab
 
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braveslice

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Also you don't really wan't to raise 22 vs limper, because there is only one flop that makes you happy xx2, chances for that is 12%.

Limpers by default limp because they want to play, you trying to stop them makes them angry. Angry players get stubborn. Whitch is very good if you are strong and very bad if you are weak.
 
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CardDead711

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I'm still just holding twos. which is more the reason to just limp. what do yall think[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I was giving you my thoughts on your raise, but I agree since you are only holding 2-2, limping is the better play in your situation and position, and see what the flop brings.
 
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Sam Powers

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Exactly. I was giving you my thoughts on your raise said:
but if i were to raise would the raise i suggested in my last reply be the appropriate amount to thin the playing field effectively?
 
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CardDead711

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Yes, the larger raise you mentioned earlier would of worked better i think. Once the raise hits 2 digits they seem to fold alot easier. Therefore, adjust your raises and experiment with the size to accomplish your goal of either thinning the players or creating action. But if they come along to the larger raise, be aware of a stronger hand in the mix, especially if you are out of position with a small pair. Good luck!!!
 
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arod6893

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Tbh, limping is the most optimal here. You're only two options with 22 are call or fold. Ive actually folded 22 a lot in the SB depending on the raiser and how many in the hand, just because, well, outside of flops that have a 2 and are rainbow, it plays like crap. I hate being 3-bet OOP with this hand. You cant rep much, dont get there often, check/fold most of the time.

You never ever flop a set on that board to fold. Re raise, get it all in, see what happens.
 
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