$2 NLHE 6-max: bone dry board facing check raise and followed by pot size turn bet

quant1986 · Nov 1, 2019

$2 NLHE 6-max: bone dry board facing check raise and followed by pot size turn bet

pokerstars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.01/$0.02 - 6 players
Hand delivered by Upswing Poker

UTG: $3.36 (168 bb)
MP: $3.37 (169 bb)
CO (Hero): $3.84 (192 bb)
BU: $2.03 (102 bb)
SB: $1.98 (99 bb)
BB: $3.86 (193 bb) VPIP/PFR/3bet/AF (32/22/9.5/3)

Pre-Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with 8♥ 8♣
2 players fold, Hero raises to $0.06, 2 players fold, BB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.13) K♥ 3♠ 2♦ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.05, BB raises to $0.16, Hero calls $0.11

Turn: ($0.45) K♠ (2 players)
BB bets $0.43, Hero calls $0.43

River: ($1.31) J♣ (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Villain is rare type of NL2 player who is capable of pulling off river check-raise bluff.

How would you play this hand? What range do you put villain on?

puzzlefish · Nov 1, 2019

This looks like some kind of pair 99+. Trip K wouldn't play like that unless villain is being trappy on the river.

I would probably bet-fold on the flop. It's not a good board for a lower pair and not much room to improve. Not worth continuing really once villain decides to raise.

PaxMundi · Nov 1, 2019

Using roughly poker snowies bb defending range vs co of around 18%
99-22,ATs-A2s,KJs-K8s,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,97s+,86s+,75s+,64s+,54s,32s,AQo-ATo,KJo+,QJo

Villain likely continues with around 11% of that range vs a cbet.
55-22,ATs,A5s-A2s,KJs-K8s,QTs+,JTs,64s+,54s,AQo-ATo,KJo+,QJo

Villain doesnt rep much value by riaisng on such a dry flop mainly 22 and 33 (if they raise) and perhaps some stronger top pair.Their calling range vs the cbet will include mainly the top pairs AQ AJ and some potential back door flush draws.So i would say the potential for villain to be bluffing this flop is pretty high.Given that you have info and reads on villain and the potential for bluffs i think you played the hand well.

pentazepam · Nov 1, 2019

Yes , if you have a read that he likes to bluff, check-call with middle pair two streets seems OK.

Especially in this hand since the King don't change if you are behind on the flop or not obviously. (It makes it a little less likely that he has a king himself).

No need to do anything else than check behind on the river with a marginal hand (not much worse can call).

Against this type of players you try to get to showdown by just calling with OK but not great hands - unless you yourself gets a premium hand like a good king in this case.

fundiver199 · Nov 3, 2019

Flop
If he like to check-raise a lot, I prefer to not C-bet a hand like this. It puts us in a very rough spot right from the get-go. If his check-raising range is merged, it can contain quite a bit of KX, and we have two outs to improve, so I would not hate getting out right away. But you called, and its not the end of the world either. At least you have position.

Turn
Now he pots it, and to me this does look bluffy. So if you called the flop, I like calling the turn as well. If he really had a boat or trips, I think, he would be scared of losing you and bet smaller. This does look like a "please fold now" bet.

River
He probably has a bluff, that gave up. Sometimes he might have gotten there on the J, but no point in turning our hand into a bluff. We have enough showdown value to check back.

quant1986 · Nov 4, 2019

Villain got K8dd in this hand which is out of my expectation.

kkonicke · Nov 4, 2019

Wow, K8. I think I play this identically to you. Maybe he got scared on the river that you had better Kx? What a bizzare play. I think you like leading here because there are way too many bad turns. Protect your hand from Qx/Jx/Tx type hands that have to snap fold to a cbet here but can pick up 2nd pair with a free card. I kinda felt like maybe he had A2-A5s that picked up spades on the turn and gave up the river. I think if you call flop, you have to call turn...so your only potential out on this hand is the flop. Betting river would make literally zero sense...you beat every bluff but lose to every hand that calls. I think A3 is folding to even a 1/4 pot size bet. Well played, tough result.

Gohaku94 · Nov 5, 2019

Better to check the flop on boards like this with 8s. As played never betting the river

gustav197poker · Nov 5, 2019

I liked your turn hero call. I think this villain may have medium pockets, or maybe a 2-point ladder project. Obviously also Kx in its range.
Regards.

Misaki · Nov 5, 2019

don't level yourself on nl2. We don't know a sample so I won't look at his stats because it seems like sample is small.

Cbet is ok because our hand is vulnerable and many turns are bad for us. But I would go with bigger bet size to just maximize my fold equity. Most of players on nl2 are pretty bad players so idea with betting 1/3 isn't always the best thing. I understand a concept of cheap cbets because people on micro folds too much but 1) if you cbet 1/3 your entire range here as a standard then imo it's a mistake on "recreational" field; 2) if you cbet 1/3 here because you have a medium strength hand then calling a raise (even if it's small) imo doesn't make any sense. I just expect 2nd barrel almost every time at nl2 so a prize is just higher.

Anyway We could check hands there like QQ,JJ, maybe TT but all other PPs I prefer to cbet. Vs a check/raise I just give up. I know that this raise seems pretty small and board seems pretty fine for us on flop but What's your plan on later streets? Do we call safe turn and give up on river? Because I would prefer to have there two overcards with some backdoors than 88 here. Our hand just rarely improve and we try to bluffcatch him on later streets with vulnerable hand without specific informations. As I said I almost always expect 2nd barrel at nl2 after a check/raise. That kind of spots can make you a problem at nl2 in long run to make a higher winrate. Players on nl2 if they raise they mostly have it. Even if it seems pretty weird and they don't represent much. Unless you are pretty sure you play vs some kind of spazzer and his random range is very wide. You mentioned that he likes to check/raise a river but how often he does it? And what river has to do with his raise flop? As a tip I can say that sometimes you can just turn your hand into a bluff and 3bet/fold vs his check/raise as a exploitative thing. But nl2 aren't the stakes I would use it as a basic gameplan.

I know cbet 1/3/fold vs a small check/raise with 88 here seems weak but avoiding complicate spots at nl2 is more ev+ than most of people think. Just go to a next spot, make a volume and focus more on value heavy spots because it seems faster way to beat those stakes than analyze and focus too much on spots at the smallest stakes possible.

quant1986 · Nov 6, 2019

Misaki said:
don't level yourself on nl2. We don't know a sample so I won't look at his stats because it seems like sample is small.

Cbet is ok because our hand is vulnerable and many turns are bad for us. But I would go with bigger bet size to just maximize my fold equity. Most of players on nl2 are pretty bad players so idea with betting 1/3 isn't always the best thing. I understand a concept of cheap cbets because people on micro folds too much but 1) if you cbet 1/3 your entire range here as a standard then imo it's a mistake on "recreational" field; 2) if you cbet 1/3 here because you have a medium strength hand then calling a raise (even if it's small) imo doesn't make any sense. I just expect 2nd barrel almost every time at nl2 so a prize is just higher.

Anyway We could check hands there like QQ,JJ, maybe TT but all other PPs I prefer to cbet. Vs a check/raise I just give up. I know that this raise seems pretty small and board seems pretty fine for us on flop but What's your plan on later streets? Do we call safe turn and give up on river? Because I would prefer to have there two overcards with some backdoors than 88 here. Our hand just rarely improve and we try to bluffcatch him on later streets with vulnerable hand without specific informations. As I said I almost always expect 2nd barrel at nl2 after a check/raise. That kind of spots can make you a problem at nl2 in long run to make a higher winrate. Players on nl2 if they raise they mostly have it. Even if it seems pretty weird and they don't represent much. Unless you are pretty sure you play vs some kind of spazzer and his random range is very wide. You mentioned that he likes to check/raise a river but how often he does it? And what river has to do with his raise flop? As a tip I can say that sometimes you can just turn your hand into a bluff and 3bet/fold vs his check/raise as a exploitative thing. But nl2 aren't the stakes I would use it as a basic gameplan.

I know cbet 1/3/fold vs a small check/raise with 88 here seems weak but avoiding complicate spots at nl2 is more ev+ than most of people think. Just go to a next spot, make a volume and focus more on value heavy spots because it seems faster way to beat those stakes than analyze and focus too much on spots at the smallest stakes possible.

I know what you are saying but I saw villain made some creative plays so would defend wider in this spot. Agree taking these marginal spots may not be EV+ especially the population tends to underbluff.

Also I use online NL2 as my training for live low stakes and wouldn't mind pay off some spots to gain more understanding what these players think to improve my play.

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$2 NLHE 6-max: bone dry board facing check raise and followed by pot size turn bet

quant1986

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puzzlefish

student of the donk arts

PaxMundi

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pentazepam

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fundiver199

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quant1986

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kkonicke

Rock Star

Gohaku94

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gustav197poker

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Misaki

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quant1986

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