$2 NLHE 6-max: Blind struggle with ATs

http://www.handconverter.com/hands/2797700

PreFlop: I have position and a good hand, call keeps the pot small, and make my range look wider. 3- bet will take the small pot decent % of times,but puts me in trouble if an opponent has a good hand and I flop top pair of tens or top pair of aces. Which option is better and why? I go for call.

Flop: In postion with second pair, I think my hand is worth a call also because it might be just standard c-bet with air.

Turn Sb checks, do we bet here ? I don't see many reasons for betting here. If we bet as a bluff and want better hand to fold, like JJ Q with low kicker, it is very unlikely that these hands will fold(especially at this limits). If we bet for value, we can only get value from any flush (Axs Kxs J9s 54s+) and straight(KJ J9 ) draw combinations, and maybe TJo T9o T8o, everything else folds.

Also by checking, we may induce bluff on the river.

If Sb doubell barrel here we fold right ?

River we check behind in case SB has straight or flush and is ready to check-raise. we can only get value from JJ TJ T9 T8, so if we get called it is likely that we will be behind.

Stats on villain?

Would 3-bet PF, we get a nice hand HU IP.

As played, call flop is good. I would bet turn as he could have pretty much air or lower T (TK, TJ) where he tried to just steal the blinds and Cbet one street, that hand would call and you can then go to showdown beating his range.

Your reasoning on the river is showing a bit too much respect especially giving his line of play. I think if he is chasing a flush he will also barrel turn here as you will probably call as the 6 is not a scare card (nor for him) and can bluff on river given his perceived strength.

Villian shows Js 5d he was indeed stealing the blind and c-bet

Bet the turn. You called the flop to be able to steal the pot on the turn, he's given you the opportunity, so take it.

c9h13no3 said:

Bet the turn. You called the flop to be able to steal the pot on the turn, he's given you the opportunity, so take it.

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I disagree with this. We didn't call the flop bet to steal on the turn, we called because we have the best hand most of the time. Villain is never folding a better hand on the turn, so we wouldn't be stealing anyway. We could try to value bet, but there aren't many worse hands that are calling. I think checking back turn with the intention of calling most rivers is perfectly fine.

dnegsisabadreg said:

I disagree with this. We didn't call the flop bet to steal on the turn, we called because we have the best hand most of the time. Villain is never folding a better hand on the turn, so we wouldn't be stealing anyway. We could try to value bet, but there aren't many worse hands that are calling. I think checking back turn with the intention of calling most rivers is perfectly fine.

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He's right in this instance. The reasoning may not be worded that well (unless you start thinking range vs range) but in the absence of stats or reads it's not close at all between betting and checking. Bet the turn.

DunningKruger said:

He's right in this instance. The reasoning may not be worded that well (unless you start thinking range vs range) but in the absence of stats or reads it's not close at all between betting and checking. Bet the turn.

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Are you betting the turn for value or as a bluff? Also, which worse hands are you hoping to be called by, or which better hands are you trying to fold out?

Middle pairs are quite capable of folding the turn, and planning to call a river bet with ace high on a checked back turn seems a little gross.

c9h13no3 said:

Middle pairs are quite capable of folding the turn, and planning to call a river bet with ace high on a checked back turn seems a little gross.

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Did you misread the hand history? We don't have ace high, we have 2nd pair top kicker.

See, this is why you convert hands and post them here.

You are miles ahead of normal SB opening range with ATs so 3 bet for value and take control of the hand.
Consider why you want to hand him the betting initiative, think about this, your line is too passive here. Don't play this call, check guessing game.
As played once he checks the turn, yes bet the turn for value and protection, he could easily be sitting on two clubs and hoping to see the river for free and there aren't many cards that will help us on the river.
Keep control of the hand, bet for value and charge the draws, don't give free cards and push the difficult decisions onto him.

dnegsisabadreg said:

Are you betting the turn for value or as a bluff? Also, which worse hands are you hoping to be called by, or which better hands are you trying to fold out?

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I can't decide whether to give a brief reply here or a longer one. I'll go with a longer one this time. But yeah we've got AT on QTx twotone bvb and the brick turn stopped him in his tracks. It's most certainly for value if we're categorizing it one of those two ways, but there's several reasons to make a bet there. Not only is it possible for weaker made hands (looking to bink something or bluff catch) or ofc any of the numerous draws in his range to call a turn bet, but we're betting to protect our equity in the pot. We're also betting because as the other poster alluded to we're using our position and inherent fold equity in this spot to fire here fairly often, so it's nice to show down what is likely the best hand here at least once in awhile when we do so (I know balancing your range is disregarded by most at these stakes but even 2NL players eventually notice when you're full of **** the vast majority of the time). We're betting to take control of the hand. We're betting because our opponent is telling us it's safe to do so. He's not planning to check/raise the offsuit 6, and it's less likely he's holding a queen when he slows down ott.

If we forgo doing these things then it's too passive an approach by default to blind vs blind situations. If you believe we need at least top pair to make a bet in this spot that isn't actually a bluff, then our hand strength here is essentially that (blocker considerations aside) unless we're up against exactly JJ. Most arguments to bet Qx apply here as well. If you believe we need better than top pair (or, again, a bluff) to put money in the pot in position bvb, I couldn't agree less. Essentially, it's more likely our opponent makes a mistake vs a turn bet than a turn check, and I think the percentage of instances we coax a river bluff from this unknown where at the same time he was going to check/fold the previous street is being overestimated. Here it's generally preferable to put money into the pot before all kinds of hands that could hit on us find out if they improve as opposed to after they find out.

Remember that this is blind vs blind and his range is as wide as ever. a 3bet preflop here is a must. You have excellent hand strength for your position and against your opponents range.

Floating the cbet is fine, however whilst you do have showdown value with your pair of tens, you also need to be aggressive in a blind vs blind situation. Lay down the law that he can't steal your blind with rags and bet the turn for value against any reverse floats he might have, which are common BVB.

If you do bet the turn and he calls, I would imagine he would lead the river again knowing that betting is the only way to win the pot, which puts you in a tough spot, but generally BVB hero calls are correct.

c9h13no3 said:

Bet the turn. You called the flop to be able to steal the pot on the turn, he's given you the opportunity, so take it.

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Maybe bet the turn but we are not trying to steal. We are betting to charge draws, and get value from a weaker 10. Sure, he may show up with a weak Q sometimes that he was pot controlling with but it is what it is because we are way ahead of his range here so we bet for value, not as a steal.