$2 NLHE 6-max: Bad Beat or poorly played?

C

cerebration

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Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 19/13/3.5

***** Hand History for Game 1111111111 ***** (poker stars)
$2.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, October 25, 09:32:35 ET 2016
Table Lictoria (real money)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: Player1 ( $2.46 USD ) - VPIP: 18, PFR: 12, 3B: 9, AF: 3.5, hands: 33
Seat 2: Player2 ( $2.57 USD ) - VPIP: 43, PFR: 3, 3B: 0, AF: 1.5, Hands: 30
Seat 3: Player3 ( $3.29 USD ) - VPIP: 21, PFR: 16, 3B: 6, AF: 4.0, Hands: 63
Seat 4: Hero ( $2.34 USD ) - VPIP: 17, PFR: 8, 3B: 4, AF: 1.9, Hands: 216
Seat 5: Player5 ( $1.91 USD ) - VPIP: 35, PFR: 30, 3B: 0, AF: 0.0, Hands: 20
Seat 6: Player6 ( $5.73 USD ) - VPIP: 16, PFR: 14, 3B: 6, AF: 1.0, Hands: 44
Player5 posts small blind [$0.01 USD].
Player6 posts big blind [$0.02 USD].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Th Kh ]
Player1 raises [$0.06 USD]
Player2 folds
Player3 folds
Hero calls [$0.06 USD]
Player5 folds
Player6 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ 8h, 3d, 6h ]
Player1 bets [$0.14 USD]
Hero calls [$0.14 USD]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ah ]
Player1 bets [$0.41 USD]
Hero calls [$0.41 USD]
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
Player1 bets [$1.85 USD]
Hero calls [$1.73 USD]
Player1 wins $0.12 USD
Player1 shows [8d, 8s ]
Hero shows [Th, Kh ]
Player1 wins $4.55 USD from main pot


Considering the skill level of players at .01/.02 stakes, is that a bad beat or I had to re-raise after grabbing the flush? I just felt like slowplaying till the river.
 
Picatrix

Picatrix

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I'd say that's a bad beat. He rarely catches the full house by the river, most of the time you'll take him for a lot there. Don't worry about it.

I think that being able to tell when your flush is beat by a full house on river is an extremely advanced skill and one you don't need for micro micro limits.
 
John A

John A

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Raise/fold the turn doesn't matter much here. I prefer calling since you're not folding the river and he might make a worse 4 board flush.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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raise or fold the nuts on turn doesnt matter?? hmmm questionable logic john perhaps an oversight haha.

anyways yeh cant fold river... but yeh so u mean john money will get in no matter what worse or better hands. so who cares?

i always like raising turn only cuz i know sets are hoping for board to pair up alot and flushes never folding.

im folding pre to utg raise with kts... usually like 3betting but this aint a good spot since we will be heavily dominated.
 
S

string

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Calling UTG opens with KT is asking for trouble. Even over a very small sample, 18/12 indicates a tight player, and when he opens UTG you're behind his range with KT and dominated by a good percentage of it.

On the flop, you called a pot-sized bet with a flush draw. I don't like this play - I think raising or folding is much better. You're not getting the direct odds to call a pot sized bet, and when you flat, it's really easy for him to barrel turn. Turn is not a heart more than 80% of the time, and you usually have to fold to a second barrel.

On the other hand, if you raise flop, he's folding most of his preflop opening range (almost all of which is still ahead of you). The hands he can continue with are sets, overpairs, and nut flush draws. Most of the time these hands flat call a flop raiser and check to you on the turn, where you can check behind, see a free river, and realize the entire equity you have in the hand.

As played I probably would've raised the turn, because that A hits his range far harder than it does yours. He's raised UTG and double barreled OOP postflop - chances are he has a hand, and players at 2NL tend to have difficulty letting hands go.

Slowplaying definitely isn't bad though, because he's probably betting or check/calling most non-heart rivers.

The river is a really tough spot in my mind. I can't think of a hand that logically takes this line other than 8s full, aces full, 3s full, or quad 6s. Overbets are generally polarizing - either a monster or air. Ace-broadway wants to get called by worse aces, so should usually be betting smaller for value.

The thing is, at 2NL, players don't always make logical decisions. Your hand is huge - you're beaten by a very small number of full houses. Despite my inability to think of logical hands that you beat, I would still lean towards a call. You played passively the whole hand, and there's plenty of aggro fish that will just barrel away mindlessly at a passive player.

This was a very hard hand to play in my opinion. I think the correct decision was marginal on every street (except preflop). On the flop, calling, raising, and folding are all perfectly viable options. On the turn, raising and calling are both viable. And on the river, calling and folding are both viable. I recognize that I am a very aggressive player and as such tend to favor raising over calling even with big hands, but playing monsters passively definitely isn't wrong.

I'll wrap up with this quote from the Mersenneary E-Book (the book is about HUSNG but a lot of concepts are applicable to all forms of poker).
"The more rare the situation and the closer the decision, the less you should care about the answer of what action you should have taken."
While the board pairing when you have a straight or flush isn't ultra-rare, the fact that the decision is so close means that it's not very important to your long-term EV. So don't worry too much about it :)
 
A

arod6893

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raise or fold the nuts on turn doesnt matter?? hmmm questionable logic john perhaps an oversight haha.

anyways yeh cant fold river... but yeh so u mean john money will get in no matter what worse or better hands. so who cares?

i always like raising turn only cuz i know sets are hoping for board to pair up alot and flushes never folding.

im folding pre to utg raise with kts... usually like 3betting but this aint a good spot since we will be heavily dominated.


Idt its questionable logic, but more so if you raise and hit the flush no matter what happens, you're calling.

Raising the flop is more standard then raising the turn, as I think if he jams or 4-bets we fold always. Bigger flush draws will call on the turn and a smaller flush draw (maybe a Q I guess would call) is folding a paired board anyway even if they hit.

I will admit I am looser then some, but I also play on higher stakes (maybe as to why I disagree folding pre-flop to UTG). But at micro I'm folding here to bis stats.
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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Idt its questionable logic, but more so if you raise and hit the flush no matter what happens, you're calling.

Raising the flop is more standard then raising the turn, as I think if he jams or 4-bets we fold always. Bigger flush draws will call on the turn and a smaller flush draw (maybe a Q I guess would call) is folding a paired board anyway even if they hit.

I will admit I am looser then some, but I also play on higher stakes (maybe as to why I disagree folding pre-flop to UTG). But at micro I'm folding here to bis stats.

higher stakes u 3bet or get squeezed ive noticed :) id always take the innitiative so i 3bet
 
Sil3ntness

Sil3ntness

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higher stakes u 3bet or get squeezed ive noticed :) id always take the innitiative so i 3bet

It just becomes gross when you get 4 bet light when you have a playable hand
 
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