$2 NLHE 6-max: AQs, flopped set of aces vs 2 all-ins.

seanDCFC

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Both of my opponents were playing very tight and I hadnt seen either go all-in once and we had been playing at the same table for around an hour. I was worried that I was beat here. I had also noticed that UTG liked to limp in with big PP and I had not seen him limp with anything else. Is this a standard call or can we ever let this hand go?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Hand Converter from HandHistoryConverter.com
SB ($1.33)
Hero (BB) ($3.19)
UTG ($1.51)
MP ($1.54)
CO ($1.34)
Button ($1.61)
Preflop: Hero is BB with A
spade.gif
, Q
spade.gif

UTG calls $0.02, MP bets $0.08, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.06, UTG calls $0.06
Flop: ($0.25) A
heart.gif
, A
club.gif
, J
spade.gif
(3 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks, MP bets $0.18, Hero calls $0.18, UTG raises to $1.43 (All-In), MP raises to $1.46 (All-In), Hero?
 
seanDCFC

seanDCFC

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You forgot "fist pump" :)

OP, guessing you ran into AK/AJ/JJ here and are questioning your play?

Yeah that is why, I had the worst hand here. They had JJ and AK. I just thought after that with these players playing so tight that maybe a fold would have been better.
 
LuckyChippy

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Lol at both having a better had than you. Unlucky OP.
 
REI53

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You were unlucky...it happens to me all the time :p
Standard play, what could u've done differently really?
 
V

vasysm

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the art of hero folds is difficult to master... but still, the signs were there.

I remember folding A Q on a juicy flop and watching the other 2 guys battle it out. one had A K, the other had 9 9 and caught the set on the river. the fold saved me a buyin - it was a live cash table.
 
PattyR

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technically you flopped trips right? =)
 
Sysvr4

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the art of hero folds is difficult to master... but still, the signs were there.

I remember folding A Q on a juicy flop and watching the other 2 guys battle it out. one had A K, the other had 9 9 and caught the set on the river. the fold saved me a buyin - it was a live cash table.

That's fabulous, glad it worked out for you. You're also unwittingly lighting money on fire by folding the best hand on spots like this too often. Cheers.
 
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vasysm

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Can u plz teach me how to make hero laydowns???

Watch carefully the tendencies of others and try to get the right ranges. Sometimes it's just a gut feeling, this can't be taught....

In that same session I folded K Q preflop in position... and I was right, because the battle was ultimately A A vs. J J. I went out with a profit mainly due to these two folds.
 
TylerN

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Watch carefully the tendencies of others and try to get the right ranges. Sometimes it's just a gut feeling, this can't be taught....

In that same session I folded K Q preflop in position... and I was right, because the battle was ultimately A A vs. J J. I went out with a profit mainly due to these two folds.

lolzz fish food :eating:
 
vanquish

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Watch carefully the tendencies of others and try to get the right ranges. Sometimes it's just a gut feeling, this can't be taught....

In that same session I folded K Q preflop in position... and I was right, because the battle was ultimately A A vs. J J. I went out with a profit mainly due to these two folds.

i lol'd
 
Pascal-lf

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Gut feeling for good players is based off reads and past experiences, gut feeling for bad players is "if I head butt the keyboard what button do I happen to press this time".

Based on the fact you made a "hero" laydown preflop with KQ, and the fact that you are hoping to impress everyone/prove a point by saying you made a profit in a session (wow!), and the fact that you seem to remember these two hands very well even though they are very standard, suggests to me you headbutt the keyboard regularly ;)
 
V

vasysm

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:) I didn't say I was a great player anyway. Laugh at me if you wish, I know I have a lot to learn.
 
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ComplexPlaya

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On a more serious note, just how tight were these players? Some stats would be great OP.

I never played 2nl but I don't see why there couldn't be nits there, if there are at 4NL.

I really disagree with the "ship it" as a default in every situation. By what OP says, they both clearly have an ace and/or boat since they wouldn't spazz random TT hands here.

So we need to look at the preflop ranges, do they ever have A9 and down? Does MP raise with A5s or AT, does UTG limp/call with those hands?

If only one of the 2 never has anything less than AT here then it's a clear fold. I know it looks unlikely at 2NL but OP played them for an hour and one of them might just be that kind of nit. Hell, you don't even have to be a nit, just a tag to open AT+ only in the MP, as far as Ax hands go.
 
xdeucesx

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On a more serious note, just how tight were these players? Some stats would be great OP.

I never played 2nl but I don't see why there couldn't be nits there, if there are at 4NL.

I really disagree with the "ship it" as a default in every situation. By what OP says, they both clearly have an ace and/or boat since they wouldn't spazz random TT hands here.

So we need to look at the preflop ranges, do they ever have A9 and down? Does MP raise with A5s or AT, does UTG limp/call with those hands?

If only one of the 2 never has anything less than AT here then it's a clear fold. I know it looks unlikely at 2NL but OP played them for an hour and one of them might just be that kind of nit. Hell, you don't even have to be a nit, just a tag to open AT+ only in the MP, as far as Ax hands go.

no offense, but you probably have been playing higher limits than 2nl lol...there are random morons shipping 1010 here/ there are guys opening up a5s, flopping trips and shipping it...theres also guys shipping 77 & worse here just hoping to bluff...its 2nl, clearly you play much higher limits haha

i understand you run into the occasional TAG grinding, but at 2nl your never laying this down...these guys play so awful haha
 
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ComplexPlaya

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no offense, but you probably have been playing higher limits than 2nl lol...there are random morons shipping 1010 here/ there are guys opening up a5s, flopping trips and shipping it...theres also guys shipping 77 & worse here just hoping to bluff...its 2nl, clearly you play much higher limits haha

i understand you run into the occasional TAG grinding, but at 2nl your never laying this down...these guys play so awful haha

Beat : not playing that much higher.

We're not here to say it's 2nl those idiots blabla haha. The OP actually has reads, he's been playing for 1 hour at the table, which is significant online. He's seen villains play 80-100 hands. He said both were very tight and not getting out of line. Why should we not trust his reads, only b/c of the stakes? Meh. It all depends on their preflop range, regardless of the stakes :)
 
xdeucesx

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Beat : not playing that much higher.

We're not here to say it's 2nl those idiots blabla haha. The OP actually has reads, he's been playing for 1 hour at the table, which is significant online. He's seen villains play 80-100 hands. He said both were very tight and not getting out of line. Why should we not trust his reads, only b/c of the stakes? Meh. It all depends on their preflop range, regardless of the stakes :)

good point haha, ive seen so many moronic plays at 2nl i guess my judgement is clouded haha
 
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ComplexPlaya

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good point haha, ive seen so many moronic plays at 2nl i guess my judgement is clouded haha

The sad part is here's an OP actually watching villains / getting reads, and what everyone is basically telling him is : your reads don't matter, play this standard line because it's 2NL. I wonder if OP is encouraged or discouraged by this on trying to get reads on villains in the future.
 
Pascal-lf

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Oh BTW - you have trips, not a set :)

Set = three of a kind with a pocket pair ;)
 
blueskies

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Perhaps a decent raise on the flop might have made your decision a little easier. If you are facing a ton of aggression, then it's more likely that you are up against one or both of AK AJ and JJ.

Still, it's pretty hard to lay this down.

I had a hand where I flopped a set of 3s on a A23 all hearts board in a 3 way hand. I was middle to act and raised SB's bet big. Then BTN reraised me and SB flat called, as did I. This made it easier for me to lay down later to continued aggression. One guy flopped a flush, the other one a straight flush.

(The last 3 fell on the river AFTER I folded the turn (a 5s). I was mad until both guys went all in and the cards flipped over)
 
doops

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That would be a really hard laydown. Given your reads, and the fact that neither of them was big on shoving, it would still be a tough laydown. Good for you for paying attention to that.

I'd probably have called and been whupped. So be it. Seriously, folding here seems foolish in the long run. That the others both had you beat this time is plain unlucky. But that does not make staying in the hand wrong.

Folding is also not really wrong. Just a bad idea in the long haul. It would suggest that one is playing a bit too protectively. A bit too scared. And that's both exploitable and -EV.
 
No Brainer

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On a more serious note, just how tight were these players? Some stats would be great OP.

I never played 2nl but I don't see why there couldn't be nits there, if there are at 4NL.

I really disagree with the "ship it" as a default in every situation. By what OP says, they both clearly have an ace and/or boat since they wouldn't spazz random TT hands here.

So we need to look at the preflop ranges, do they ever have A9 and down? Does MP raise with A5s or AT, does UTG limp/call with those hands?

If only one of the 2 never has anything less than AT here then it's a clear fold. I know it looks unlikely at 2NL but OP played them for an hour and one of them might just be that kind of nit. Hell, you don't even have to be a nit, just a tag to open AT+ only in the MP, as far as Ax hands go.


Even against 2x nitty ranges here we are pretty even. Given the huge pot ($1.46 into $3.50) I don't think it is very wise to be folding here at all...


Board: Ah Ac Js
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 35.203% 25.69% 09.52% 72366 26814.00 { AsQs }
Hand 1: 32.398% 27.63% 04.76% 77856 13422.00 { JJ+, ATs+, AJo+ }
Hand 2: 32.398% 27.63% 04.76% 77856 13422.00 { JJ+, ATs+, AJo+ }
 
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