$2 NLHE 6-max: Was my AA played right?

Pokergambler11

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This player is unknown at the time

Holding: AA
HERO STACK: $1.08 Villain stack: $1.50

Villain limps 0.02
Hero raises 0.06
Villain 2 folds
Villain 3 calls in SB
Villain Calls

FLOP 2c 5s 4d STACK 0.19c
Villain 3 bets .20c
Villain folds
Hero raises .60c
Villain 3 shoves
HERO??????


So this is what I' thinking.
He couldn't have 3 of a kind or even two pair because he bets so large. His pot bet looks weak. If he had two pair or three of a kind than most people would check to slowplay or bet half pot, especially with this very dry board. I think he doesn't have A3 in his hand otherwise he also wouldn't bet pot. So to me it looks like a bluff or overpair. What do you think the right thing to do is here?
 
mbrenneman0

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i think your logic is close but a little flawed in my opinion. youre assuming that all players slowplay strong hands and bet large on bluffs. that thinking will get you in a lot of trouble and cost you a lot of money. some players go super aggressive and overbet with strong hands, some players dont... you cant really tell unless you pay attention to the player's type.

Here's what I'm thinking, villain donks the pot from the small blind with 2 other players in the pot. i think this means its safe to assume he doesnt really know what he's doing, we really cant rule out any of the hands that beat us, but i think that he is assuming that you and the other player missed the flop and are trying to put you off it. id snap call on this board against this villain. thats just me, and it might be the wrong move. idk.
 
DrazaFFT

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Why are you sitting with 50bb? Are you playing MSS??
Pot donk bet vs 2 usually mean made hand, at these limits this could be any overpair or worse, but could also be set or better, my move with 50bb stacks is raise allin for value, with this raise of .60 you're committed yourself and have to call if he push, why not just push all your stack, you think that you will bring more worse hands to call 60bb that they would call your full stack? he is potting flop he is not going anywhere so just shove, outcome is irrelevant.
 
Pokergambler11

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Why are you sitting with 50bb? Are you playing MSS??
Pot donk bet vs 2 usually mean made hand, at these limits this could be any overpair or worse, but could also be set or better, my move with 50bb stacks is raise allin for value, with this raise of .60 you're committed yourself and have to call if he push, why not just push all your stack, you think that you will bring more worse hands to call 60bb that they would call your full stack? he is potting flop he is not going anywhere so just shove, outcome is irrelevant.

888 poker, you can only buyin for 50bb in 2nl 6max games
 
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Jreece18

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Thats kinda strange, is it a rule for all tables or you just sit at cap table?

It's a rule for 6max 2nl only. Fr and higher stakes are 100bb.
I've suggested he changes stakes, switches to Fr or changes site so he doesn't learn how to play 50bb and then suddenly have to play pots with much higher SPRs when he moves up.
 
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Jreece18

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Once again, with the short stack, you're pot committed and have to call. The 60c raise put you all in. Thats going to be most of the advice of marginal spots on a capped game imo.
 
DrazaFFT

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It's a rule for 6max 2nl only. Fr and higher stakes are 100bb.
I've suggested he changes stakes, switches to Fr or changes site so he doesn't learn how to play 50bb and then suddenly have to play pots with much higher SPRs when he moves up.


Or he can keep playing mss when he move up, limiting his buyin to 40-50bb if he get used to that style.

I dont know, i was losing player while i was playing 100bb game, couldnt even pass by 2nl fr or 6max, had huge lack of discipline both preflop and on flop, stacked off a lot pre and a lot on flop. Member here suggested me to switch to mss and all the sudden those habits i had turned to be a +ev moves just cuz the SPR changed.

Not defending the mss or advocating that OP should switch to it but IMHO if he is playing 50bb game, he should imply some changes in the game, both preflop and postflop in order to max the winnings and in order to understand the difference between those two styles cuz imo there is a big difference between playing 100bb and 50bb game...
 
TimovieMan

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Raise a little bigger preflop. Standard is 3bb + 1bb per limper. That would be 4bb instead of 3bb here.

On the flop, just shove. You've pot-committed yourself to calling his shove anyway.
 
Delvuter

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We can't gauge hands by bet sizes at this level because often folks don't know about bet sizing strategies. I often over bet monster hands at the $.10 and below because fish will bite more often than not. Although villain limping pre still means what it usually means; medium suited connectors, medium to low pocket pair, Ax, all hands that potentially give villain straight draws or a set on the this flop. I would call that a wet board and with a wet board like that I am just trying to get to showdown as cheap as possible because my A's just dropped in value dramatically. In other words I reluctantly fold to his pot donk bet. Even if we call and get a 3 we are still on what we call the idiot end of a straight. When I get AA or KK I only want a rainbow flop of something like J72, anything else and I am sitting with a lowsy pair and only thing worse is air. In cash games we are looking to get sets and greater unless it is a dry board. Learn to realize a pair of A's suck in cash games. Soone ryou learn that the sooner you can move up.
 
Beanfacekilla

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Raise a little bigger preflop. Standard is 3bb + 1bb per limper. That would be 4bb instead of 3bb here.

On the flop, just shove. You've pot-committed yourself to calling his shove anyway.


+1.

Move in on the dude who donked into you.
 
Delvuter

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Do what you want, but don’t listen to people whose answer to the problem is more often than not shove. They only play like that because they don’t know how to play post flop. Basically their thinking is, “It’s going in anyway so I might as well maximize my fold equity. Dur.” Watch and see peoples posts and responses, if they say shove a lot for a solution, stop listening to them. They just don’t have the discipline to fold.
 
TimovieMan

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Do what you want, but don’t listen to people whose answer to the problem is more often than not shove. They only play like that because they don’t know how to play post flop. Basically their thinking is, “It’s going in anyway so I might as well maximize my fold equity. Dur.” Watch and see peoples posts and responses, if they say shove a lot for a solution, stop listening to them. They just don’t have the discipline to fold.
Except that this is only 50bb deep. Shoving is going to be the best strategy here a lot of the time, just like it would in a tournament.

Make it 100bb deep, and it's an entirely different story.
 
Delvuter

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In this situation are we wanting them to fold or call? If we want them to fold we are risking our stack to gain $.19!!! If we want them to call, which we can't know that, what are we ahead of that is calling??? AA-JJ, maybe even TT would have bet pre, is 99-55 calling to a shove? Not correctly. AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ and maybe even AT, KT would have bet pre, are any of those including Ax, but not A5, A3, A2 calling a shove??? Not correctly. Only thing calling here is a set or someone incorrectly calling on a straight draw. Pushing here doesn't make sense on this board. Go ahead and push cause you are only 50BB, playing lik ethat you'll never see 100BB.
 
mbrenneman0

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I think its a big mistake to assume that villains are playing correctly all the time. I feel like I'm finding more value in the assumption that villains call a shove with a much wider range than they would call a 2/3pot bet at these stakes in a fishy player pool. Of course I don't have much of a sample to back that claim with.
 
Delvuter

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I would rather error on the side of playing correct and missing a big pot and slowly grinding up, instead of error on the side of playing incorrect and getting a big pot and quickly gaining a lot of chips. Shoving all your chips in with a pair is not the correct move. Small hand, small pot, big hand big pot. Betting an amount to get a better hand to fold and a worse one to call. Shoving denies both of these basic elementary poker principles.
 
IPlay

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Once again, with the short stack, you're pot committed and have to call. The 60c raise put you all in. Thats going to be most of the advice of marginal spots on a capped game imo.

Right, 50bb deep with an overpair is hard to ever fold without reads.
 
Delvuter

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That Statement right there translates to = I have no discipline so I am shoving my crappy one pair cause I just can’t ever find a fold and my excuse is the myth that under 100BB shove is the only option. You people are the same people I see yelling profanities at donk betters that busto their AA and KK and whatever other hand they got a woody on. AA is just one single itsy bitsy pair people!!!
 
mbrenneman0

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That Statement right there translates to = I have no discipline so I am shoving my crappy one pair cause I just can’t ever find a fold and my excuse is the myth that under 100BB shove is the only option. You people are the same people I see yelling profanities at donk betters that busto their AA and KK and whatever other hand they got a woody on. AA is just one single itsy bitsy pair people!!!
Lol tilted

Deluvar, I think you're advising him to play scared... I think there's a balance. You don't want to spew in -EV situations. But you don't want to run away from +EV just because it might have higher variance.
 
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IPlay

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In this situation are we wanting them to fold or call? If we want them to fold we are risking our stack to gain $.19!!! If we want them to call, which we can't know that, what are we ahead of that is calling??? AA-JJ, maybe even TT would have bet pre, is 99-55 calling to a shove? Not correctly. AK, AQ, AJ, KQ, KJ and maybe even AT, KT would have bet pre, are any of those including Ax, but not A5, A3, A2 calling a shove??? Not correctly. Only thing calling here is a set or someone incorrectly calling on a straight draw. Pushing here doesn't make sense on this board. Go ahead and push cause you are only 50BB, playing lik ethat you'll never see 100BB.

Call obviously, most villains in 50bb cap 2NL games are not making all the correct folds. Are you really advocating folding to the pot sized donk bet? If we call flop we can't fold turn so whats your plan?

I would rather error on the side of playing correct and missing a big pot and slowly grinding up, instead of error on the side of playing incorrect and getting a big pot and quickly gaining a lot of chips. Shoving all your chips in with a pair is not the correct move. Small hand, small pot, big hand big pot. Betting an amount to get a better hand to fold and a worse one to call. Shoving denies both of these basic elementary poker principles.

An overpair is a big enough hand to commit 50bbs to a pot. Do you really think villains at 2NL are only calling with better then AA here?

That Statement right there translates to = I have no discipline so I am shoving my crappy one pair cause I just can’t ever find a fold and my excuse is the myth that under 100BB shove is the only option.

That statement actually translates too, I know the math so I am getting my nut pair all in while fist pumping without excuses.
 
mbrenneman0

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That statement actually translates too, I know the math so I am getting my nut pair all in while fist pumping without excuses.

And also not crying if it gets busted because you knew you made the right play
 
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Jreece18

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That Statement right there translates to = I have no discipline so I am shoving my crappy one pair cause I just can’t ever find a fold and my excuse is the myth that under 100BB shove is the only option. You people are the same people I see yelling profanities at donk betters that busto their AA and KK and whatever other hand they got a woody on. AA is just one single itsy bitsy pair people!!!

Call 40c for $1.70ish at with aces at 2nl when only 9 combos beat you. Think he's not doing this with trash? It's 2nl.
 
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Jreece18

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Or he can keep playing mss when he move up, limiting his buyin to 40-50bb if he get used to that style.

I dont know, i was losing player while i was playing 100bb game, couldnt even pass by 2nl fr or 6max, had huge lack of discipline both preflop and on flop, stacked off a lot pre and a lot on flop. Member here suggested me to switch to mss and all the sudden those habits i had turned to be a +ev moves just cuz the SPR changed.

Not defending the mss or advocating that OP should switch to it but IMHO if he is playing 50bb game, he should imply some changes in the game, both preflop and postflop in order to max the winnings and in order to understand the difference between those two styles cuz imo there is a big difference between playing 100bb and 50bb game...

I agree he is going to, but has he tried 100bb or is this his aim? From the hands he posts it seems as though the 50bb game frustrates him. Don't wanna put words in his mouth, just not getting a definitive answer.
 
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