$2 NLHE 6-max: AA facing over bet pot shove, should I ever fold vs a player like this

naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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$2 NLHE 6-max: AA facing over bet pot shove, should I ever fold vs a player like this

Ok so before I show the actual hand, for the AA (to help you all get a better feel for this players playing style, I'll post this hand which I had previously played vs this player)..

I'd like you all to notice the fact, that they just limp in with QQ pre, and then flatted a 3bet with it, and then to compound error upon error (which I've done in the past also:eek: ), "DONK OVER BET SHOVED".



poker stars $2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1995774
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

SB: $0.76 - VPIP: 14, PFR: 14, 3B: 0, AF: Infinity, hands: 7
BB: $1.15 - VPIP: 40, PFR: 10, 3B: 11, AF: 2.0, Hands: 20
UTG: $3.99 - VPIP: 60, PFR: 5, 3B: 8, AF: 2.4, Hands: 63
MP: $2.80 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 19, 3B: 0, AF: 2.0, Hands: 32
CO: $5.00 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 22, 3B: 0, AF: 1.7, Hands: 55
Hero (BTN): $4.97 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 14, 3B: 4, AF: 1.7, Hands: 16737

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN with K :diamond: K :club:
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, CO raises to $0.06, Hero raises to $0.32, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.30, CO calls $0.26

Flop: ($0.99) 7 :club: T :heart: 2 :spade: (3 players)
UTG bets $3.67, CO folds, Hero calls $3.67

Turn: ($8.33) 6 :club: (2 players)

River: ($8.33) J :spade: (2 players)

Final Pot: $8.33
UTG shows Q :heart: Q :spade:
Hero shows K :diamond: K :club:
Hero wins $8.04
(Rake: $0.29)

the interesting fact about this hand is that they like to gii on flops which they feel they are comfortably ahead of players ranges and over all they will "get paid by under pairs+A10o+ anyone they think is bad enough to call them in that spot" (that's my take on it personally)..

So now the AA hand, once again (if you notice they just flatted my raise OOP), and they "DONK shoved A.I"...

So looking at the 1st hand+little stats too go by, what's our move here? Either call and hope I'm ahead or just fold it simply put (little lost no issue at all right).

So what could this player have that does this? Well sets+2pair+AQ (I highly doubt this player shoves on flush draws+open ended draws, could be mistaken though)...

So are my AA in danger here? Is this a call all day long or no? What do you all think?


Poker Stars $2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1995775
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $5.09 - VPIP: 26, PFR: 24, 3B: 4, AF: 3.5, Hands: 82
SB: $2.00 - VPIP: 16, PFR: 12, 3B: 0, AF: 3.0, Hands: 50
BB: $4.13 - VPIP: 60, PFR: 5, 3B: 8, AF: 2.4, Hands: 63
UTG: $2.11 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 22, 3B: 0, AF: 7.0, Hands: 41
MP: $5.12 - VPIP: 25, PFR: 22, 3B: 0, AF: 1.7, Hands: 55
Hero (CO): $11.02 - VPIP: 22, PFR: 14, 3B: 4, AF: 1.7, Hands: 16737

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is CO with A :club: A :heart:
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, BB calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.17) 9 :diamond: 2 :heart: Q :heart: (2 players)
BB bets $4.05, Hero?
 
S

Six Hurdles

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This is a call without a doubt, and if you are beat, w/e. Can't fold on this board. He is probably overvaluing KQ or something close. Maybe a flush draw.

Call!!
 
JusSumguy

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I'm not getting away from that flop, Prolly a pot bet.

-
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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This is a call without a doubt, and if you are beat, w/e. Can't fold on this board. He is probably overvaluing KQ or something close. Maybe a flush draw.

Really the over bet shove don't phase you at all

Call!!

I'm not getting away from that flop, Prolly a pot bet.

You lost me here, sry, I mean you stated "your not getting away from flop" (fair enough), than you state "prolly a pot bet", do you mean this as it's his way of mis-clicking and he meant to make a pot size bet? Or did you mean for me to make a pot bet on this flop (even though I'm facing an over bet donk shove for 80% of my stack with little left)?

-

Too both players, and anyone else who is willing to help out here, Is it only me that is bewildere'd at the fact that we all are actually thinking this is a call (even though there's little invested in the pot to begin with), why is this not a fold ever? I mean there's just not enough $ invested in this to actually make this call is there?
 
JusSumguy

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why is this not a fold ever? I mean there's just not enough $ invested in this to actually make this call is there?

Good point.

I meant for you to bet the pot. But, after reading your reasoning, I dunno.

-
 
S

Six Hurdles

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Because we are ahead of his range. If he has QQ or 99 oh well, you got coolered. I don't think you can fold this in good conscience. If he has Q9 you still have outs. Those are probably the only hands that have you beat. He has so many hands that are worse that I can't fold here. KK Qx some 9's with flush draws. I'll try to find a fold. Nope, I can't here. I'll think about it some more though.
 
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S

Six Hurdles

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I've been playing with Poker Stove and I can't find a range that I think he's doing this with that we are less than 70% against.
 
WVHillbilly

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Too both players, and anyone else who is willing to help out here, Is it only me that is bewildere'd at the fact that we all are actually thinking this is a call (even though there's little invested in the pot to begin with), why is this not a fold ever? I mean there's just not enough $ invested in this to actually make this call is there?
You call 100% because you like money and want to win more of it.

Easy, easy call.
 
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nidal55

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u need more hands to define his range.personally i dont like getting stacked by a donks random pair+draw which is his worst holding.he has history on u and knows ur tight and if he had sthng like kk or jj that you beat would have 3bet u hard like qq before.so i believe that waiting for a better spot with more info is probably better.in the first hand he believed he was ahead and getting called by sthng like jj ak or 10s eg but now what is he doing?definitely not worth 200bb.trap the donk later
 
acky100

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Do you feel silly for posting this yet? I don't know why you would ever consider folding here... You either hate money or are results oriented to the point its costing you money
 
naruto_miu

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Do you feel silly for posting this yet? I don't know why you would ever consider folding here... You either hate money or are results oriented to the point its costing you money


I'm neither now tbh (I use to be), but um tbh I was just wondering what you all thought with little invested if it's still correct to call with just 1 pair in these situations
 
naruto_miu

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So I'll say thanks everyone for stating why this is a call...I personally was like "wtf"? Really? Yet I couldn't bring myself to fold this hand (hoping he never hit a set tbh, and was actually just value shoving me)..

Well turned out he was value shoving 2 pair vs me (or trying to protect his 2 pair from getting drawn out against, haven't really decided which one yet)..


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com



Button ($5.09)
SB ($2)
BB ($4.13)
UTG ($2.11)
MP ($5.12)
Hero (CO) ($11.02)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A
club.gif
, A
heart.gif

2 folds, Hero bets $0.08, 2 folds, BB calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.17) 9
diamond.gif
, 2
heart.gif
, Q
heart.gif
(2 players)
BB bets $4.05 (All-In), Hero calls $4.05

Turn: ($8.27) 6
heart.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($8.27) J
heart.gif
(2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $8.27 | Rake: $0.29

Results:
BB had 9
club.gif
, Q
diamond.gif
(two pair, Queens and nines).
Hero had A
club.gif
, A
heart.gif
(flush, Ace high).
Outcome: Hero won $7.98
 
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Six Hurdles

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You happened to see the top 15% of his range. But even then you've got 30% going into the turn and 36% going into the river.

Btw, did he start complaining that the site was rigged? :)
 
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youregoodmate

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Easy call, fish will do this with any Q or a FD tbh. They just spaz out and bash buttons.
 
naruto_miu

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You happened to see the top 15% of his range. But even then you've got 30% going into the turn and 36% going into the river.

Btw, did he start complaining that the site was rigged? :)


actually took on the chin, didn't make any comments at all (was afraid he'd leave the table, so I told him he out played me in that hand, and I guess the comment made him calm enough to stay and get stacked once more by me:D )..
 
naruto_miu

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Close your vpip/pfr

I'm really am trying but it's so hard, I mean there's hands such as KJs I like to play the hand, but I really don't like raising that hand oop, so I'll limp it, same with J9s OOP I'll limp in position I'll raise, and other hands like 10/9s and 78s and stuff of this nature, I don't like to fold it but don't want to raise it either..

Yet am trying, so any suggestions as to how? Should I just fold or raise all those hands I mentioned or raise them in position and fold them oop
 
Matt Vaughan

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If you're comfortable playing it postflop, raise it, if not, fold it. You should never open limp imo. The only reason your VPIP shouldn't = your PFR is that sometimes it can be profitable to flat when other people open.
 
Deco

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Call. The overbet is larger than last time but the board is more drawy.
Given villains history this is a snap call, if he has a set or maybe even Q9 consider yourself coolered.

AQ/KQ/Draws are all capable of this and vastly outnumber 77/22/Q9s
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

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If you're comfortable playing it postflop, raise it, if not, fold it. You should never open limp imo. The only reason your VPIP shouldn't = your PFR is that sometimes it can be profitable to flat when other people open.

^ This times 1,000,000

Plus you say you limp hands like J9 oop and raise in position? There is only one seat where you know you will definitely be in position and one where you know you will be oop.

Limping is a massive leak.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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^ This times 1,000,000

Plus you say you limp hands like J9 oop and raise in position? There is only one seat where you know you will definitely be in position and one where you know you will be oop.

Limping is a massive leak.

If you were to raise say HJ, and CO+BTN fold=you got position:)...I do this over and over and when they call and I'm oop I'll take a stab on a decent flop and shutdown depending on player
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

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If you were to raise say HJ, and CO+BTN fold=you got position:)...I do this over and over and when they call and I'm oop I'll take a stab on a decent flop and shutdown depending on player

Haha I understand position, what Im saying is there are only two seats at the table where you know what your position in the hand will be when you are acting. i.e, SB you will always be oop and button you will always be in position.

You said youll raise when you have position, but you can only know that when playing from the button.
 
naruto_miu

naruto_miu

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Haha I understand position, what Im saying is there are only two seats at the table where you know what your position in the hand will be when you are acting. i.e, SB you will always be oop and button you will always be in position.

You said youll raise when you have position, but you can only know that when playing from the button.



Ah I understand now what you meant in that case I don't know position all that well (Cuz I swear I try hard as hell to get that btn position all the time:eek: )
 
Poker Orifice

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if he had sthng like kk or jj that you beat would have 3bet u hard like qq before.
Pretty sure he limp/called with the QQ preflop (before). Then donk-shoved 4x pot.
 
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nidal55

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ur right orifice saw the hand fast and thought sthg else but the thought process of the donk was the forementioned and i was right as he had q9.he shoves every time he thinks he has the best hand and the others have sthng worse to call with.it was a matter of 200bb so i like to get stacked but a little bit smarter players.
 
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