$2 NLHE 6-max: 4-betting cold (when do we do this?)

HAND 1

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

CO: 75.5 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 30.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, hands: 10)
BTN: 108 BB (VPIP: 26.61, PFR: 14.68, 3Bet Preflop: 3.13, Hands: 111)
SB: 269.5 BB (VPIP: 22.22, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)
Hero (BB): 101.5 BB
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 10)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♠ J♦

fold, CO raises to 3 BB, BTN raises to 9.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 26 BB, fold, fold

Hero wins 39 BB




Hand 2

I figured QQ+ is 5 betting. AK or AQs would do this from an aggro player



Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 33.5 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 16.67, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
MP: 106 BB (VPIP: 23.46, PFR: 18.44, 3Bet Preflop: 7.46, Hands: 185)
CO: 43.5 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
BTN: 41 BB (VPIP: 100.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 3)
SB: 309.5 BB (VPIP: 45.00, PFR: 32.50, 3Bet Preflop: 11.76, Hands: 41)
Hero (BB): 154 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has T♦ T♠

fold, fold, CO raises to 2.5 BB, fold, SB raises to 7 BB, Hero raises to 23.5 BB, fold, SB calls 16.5 BB

Flop: (49.5 BB, 2 players) 5♥ 2♥ 4♠
SB checks, Hero bets 24.5 BB, SB raises to 49 BB, Hero raises to 130.5 BB and is all-in, SB calls 81.5 BB

First, congrats for having PT4, you're in great shape.

It's been a while since I've played cash games. Tricky loose opponent as it seems, but with the stats you had, I see no errors here. Just my opinion though, I'm not a pro player at all

In the first hand, although you only have 111 hands on the button, his 3 bet % is only 3%.

This time it seemed to work, but cold 4 betting JJ vs this opponent seems optimistic.

It is always player dependent.

If they call with worse, yes 4-betting JJ and even 1010 can be for value.

If they often fold that is good too with a lot of dead money in the pot. But maybe increase your bluffing range instead in that case.

The difficult thing by 4-betting with hands just under premium (that is not bluffs) is that you don't want to fold often with so much money already invested, and they are usually only good against AK if a non-maniac go all-in or 5-bet you.

I also think you are beat when he raises you on the flop in hand 2. You have shown real strength pre and he is willing to stack off.

pentazepam said:

The difficult thing by 4-betting with hands just under premium (that is not bluffs) is that you don't want to fold often with so much money already invested, and they are usually only good against AK if a non-maniac go all-in or 5-bet you.

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There is also the issue, that TT and JJ have no relevant blockers. When you have these hands, both opponents can have all the AA, KK, QQ and AK in the world, which they are usually not going to fold. Also at 2NL 3-betting is generally rather low, and people notoriously dont like to fold preflop, because they are playing for the price of nothing. So do we really need to cold 4-bet as a bluff? This is a little FPS to me, if I am honest.

I think, if you just always fold 22-JJ, when there is a sizable 3-bet ahead of you, you will not be making a big mistake at 2NL if any at all. In the first hand we picked it up, which is of course cool. But in the second hand we got our entire stack involved, and at best we were flipping against a big draw. But more realistically we probably had 2 outs most of the time.

Hand 1: CO is opening wide but BU is only 3 bet 3%. Playing right behind the wide player I'm sure they have had plenty of opportunities to 3 bet. In my opinion we are turning JJ into a bluff here with the cold 4 bet and hoping to run into the bottom of BU 3 bet range (AQ-, TT-). Because a cold 4 bet gets so much respect it can still be ok to put in the bluff here if we want to play since we are OOP. But I would rather fold or even flat the 3 bet in most cases. Sweet result though.

Hand 2: Not much HH to go on but TT isn't doing well in general in this spot. On the bright side we don't have the worst position this time but I'd rather have blockers. We would need to think SB is stealing to make this move profitably in the long run. As played I guess our line is fine post flop as SB flatted pre. When SB raises flop we can only beat a flush draw and there aren't many flush draw combos that should be calling a 4 bet OOP. We are repping a huge overpair and they don't seem to care. I can't imagine we are good here often at all.

I do not like the TT 4-bet you will be oop when called by button and if sb calls or do anything other than folding he probably beats you if he is not too bad.
Also you can cold 4-bet when the opener has a wide range of open and folds to 3-bets alot and the 3-better is good enough to pick on that and he 3-bets more than just nutted hands

The first hand seems very standard, so I have no additional comments.
In the second hand, 4bet in preflop seems questionable to me. You were probably looking to isolate yourself with co. The point is that if we assume that high combinations (aces, kings or reynas) mutually block each other, we are now unlocking any of these combinations, when we generate the fold of one of those villains.
On the other hand, we know that sb had an apparently looser behavior. But now, we should eliminate the aces on an Ax line and the AX would be available.
I think the point of imbalance is the check / raise of sb on the flop.
I still don't consider 4bet in this place, since we often lost equity, on a wet board like this.
It is more likely to think that sb wanted to stack villain 1, then clearly, after x / r we were below a desirable situation.
I would lean more for the call on this flop and would probably evaluate a fold in the turn, if v2 continues its attack.
Greetings.

Hand 2:
The draw on the flop should not have expected the SB KK+. With such hands was would immediately All-in, and don't call.
On the flop, so you can play with a flush draw and with a ready set (55, 22, 44). Perhaps with pairs JJ and DD although their can be was play in All-in and on preflop. (Straights not consider so as under such a preflop hardly who the will go with 6 3 or A 3, although on this limit and such met)
The rest is easier to fold.
You are very lucky if it was played with other hands, on this limit it happens from weak players.

Both spots are a bit tricky in that a call very likely leads to a 3-way pot...and sometimes to a squeeze 4bet which is even trickier and could lead to you folding the best hand. You could opt for a light 4bet and probably end up going heads up to the flop while committing much less preflop. CO can't risk calling marginally and getting 5bet by all the AA/KK/QQ hands.

TT is for sure a bet/fold postflop. You're almost certainly toast here. At these stakes I think it's possible the guy got married to AK thinking you might be full of it and he has a backdoor wheel draw if he's wrong...but that's wishful thinking. Far more often than not you'll be facing JJ or QQ. I think you need QQ or better in this spot to justify stacking off.

kkonicke said:

Both spots are a bit tricky in that a call very likely leads to a 3-way pot...and sometimes to a squeeze 4bet which is even trickier and could lead to you folding the best hand. You could opt for a light 4bet and probably end up going heads up to the flop while committing much less preflop. CO can't risk calling marginally and getting 5bet by all the AA/KK/QQ hands.


TT is for sure a bet/fold postflop. You're almost certainly toast here. At these stakes I think it's possible the guy got married to AK thinking you might be full of it and he has a backdoor wheel draw if he's wrong...but that's wishful thinking. Far more often than not you'll be facing JJ or QQ. I think you need QQ or better in this spot to justify stacking off.

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Looking at the second hand again I think, it is one of the rare times, where I might actually prefer to flat a 3-bet. The reason is, SB is a bit loose and aggressive, so folding seem pretty tight, and his 3-bet is on the small size as well. We also have position on him, which is good.

On the other side stack sizes makes 4-betting very awkward. CO is a cap stacker, so he can easily jam on us, in which case we have to call it off. That kind of suck, because typically TT is not doing well against the stack-off range from a capper.

But even worse is the fact, we are kind of deep against SB. TT is not the kind of hand, that wants to play for 150BB, not even against a loose and aggressive player. By just flatting we keep the pot smaller and protect our stack.

Sure it allow the cap stacker to jam on us, but if he does, we are probably in bad shape, so folding might actually save us some money in the long run. Its 2NL, so I dont think, we really need to worry that much about getting bluffed off the best hand.

Sure CO could be jamming AK, but even against that hand we are only playing a coinflip. I dont think, he is ever going crazy with a hand like 99 or A5s, or at least its super unlikely at 2NL.

So my suggestion for the second hand is to call preflop, fold if CO jam, and then we just call the flop and see, what happen on the turn.