$2 NLHE 6-max: 3bet pot IP overpair checked to me

R

RVladimiro

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PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $3.17
CO: $5.00
Hero (BTN): $3.57
SB: $3.25 19/16
BB: $1.47 65/2

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has 8:spade: 8:diamond:

fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.08, SB raises to $0.24, BB calls $0.22, Hero calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.72, 3 players) 6:heart: 2:club: 7:diamond:
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.55

Ok weird hand. I open 88 from BTN. SB 3bet and given his stack I'm up for calling it. BB calls and I call. I remember playing a 3bet pot with SB before, he does not bet it unless he is up for stacking it.

SB has a cbet of 86% and a PF3bet of 5%. When he checks the flop I'm pretty sure he'll leave it. Who knows what BB will do after checking, I don't even know why he called the 3bet pot.

So check, check and I bet since I have an overpair to the flop. This is pretty standard right? The whole hand felt weird for some reason.
 
jbbb

jbbb

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Think about this. This is far and away from a reason to bet.
You bet because you think it misses the majority of his 3bet range?
And he has shown weakness by checking so your hand figures to be best right now?
 
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RVladimiro

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Think about this. This is far and away from a reason to bet.

Hmmm thinking about the reasons to bet... value, bluff, dead money. I don't even know which applies. It's not dead money, I have a hand but by not betting I can be outdrawn. It's not value because they'll probably fold if they didn't get it. So, what is it? Did I turn my hand into a bluff? How if a 3bet pot was checked to me?

If I had doubts, now I have even more. What would the line be?
 
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RVladimiro

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You bet because you think it misses the majority of his 3bet range?
And he has shown weakness by checking so your hand figures to be best right now?

The 3bet range of SB can be any AK AQ (TT+ would really bet the flop I think!) and suited broadway I think.

BB is just a piece of the puzzle. I doubt he has a notion of range.
 
jbbb

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Ah silly me didn't check the HH close enough to see it was three way. Well if we bet the flop the worst case scenario is SB folds (i think he folds here like 90% of the time) and we get to play a pot IP against an awful player.
 
ChuckTs

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Hmmm thinking about the reasons to bet... value, bluff, dead money. I don't even know which applies. It's not dead money, I have a hand but by not betting I can be outdrawn. It's not value because they'll probably fold if they didn't get it. So, what is it? Did I turn my hand into a bluff? How if a 3bet pot was checked to me?

If I had doubts, now I have even more. What would the line be?

Bolded is good, this is exactly what we should be thinking about every decision we make.

Long story short: in general in this spot this would be thin value plus collection of dead money.

Why did you call preflop? What ranges do you have both villains on?
 
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RVladimiro

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Why did you call preflop? What ranges do you have both villains on?

Both SB and me were deep so with 12BB PF and more than 150BB left in SB stack, I was good for set mining. The original plan was to hit the set.

Range for SB would be big pairs, big aces, some suited broadway, probably connected, like KQ QJ and maybe that's too much. Range for BB is completely unknown even for him.
 
ChuckTs

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Then how does that affect your decision on the flop?
 
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RVladimiro

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Flop and SB not cbetting removed all the big pairs from his range unless he was going for a c/r. His range are now hands that missed the flop.

Again BB... who knows...
 
jbbb

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I'd really like to know a good line here ChuckT this comes up a lot and i'm never sure the best line to take. Sometimes I check behind and call later to bluff catch or sometimes I bet (like I would now) if I feel villian is passively enough to c/f after 3beting,
 
ChuckTs

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Flop and SB not cbetting removed all the big pairs from his range unless he was going for a c/r. His range are now hands that missed the flop.

Again BB... who knows...

Didn't answer the question though :)

jbbb: I'm just generally really cautious in these spots. I definitely call pf given our odds and relative position, but postflop depends completely on my reads. I can't just give you a line. Generally I agree with rvlad's ranges for the flop, and my plan is to try to get to showdown, maybe getting one street of thin value somewhere. Against some villains I bet twice if I think they're too loose to fold AK, and against some I'll just give up completely. Depends.
 
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RVladimiro

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In that case the problem with this hand is in fact the BB because my read is that SB gave up once he checked. I could check with the intention of calling a later bet and get to showdown cheap but it's a 3bet pot and I'm happy to pick the dead money here.

So the options are bluff catcher or risk turning my hand into a bluff?
 
ChuckTs

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BB cold calls a 3bet with 99. Does he ever fold that flop?

You can't ever consider your bet a bluff. It's for thin value as well as secondary reasons (protection/collection of dead money). We can obviously bluffcatch later streets but when you call pf with the intention of setmining, then generally that's not a good postflop plan as your opponents range is so tight that it's just not going to be profitable.
 
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baudib1

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I think betting is good to get the SB to fold his overcards and iso vs. the BB.
 
dj11

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I think the bet was good for finding out something, but perhaps it was a bit to much. 25 cents would have done about the same thing, safer.
 
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imwatcher

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lol... betting to find something out?
 
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baudib1

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yeah i would bet probably 40 cents here.
 
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