$2 NLHE 6-max: 3bet with AA, two callers behind

http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/17653461_609C20CF47

No hands at all on villain.
Not sure on my turn bet to be honest. SPR is weird and I think he's either going to have QQ here or AK, AK being less likely as we block it, so maybe a check/call but if we're check calling then what are we gonna do on the river? I honestly can't put a clear plan together here other than bet,bet,bet but not even sure on that.

Anybody finding a fold here given how much we have left behind?

Monitor nearly went out the window when he turned over his hand haha

You played it fine till the turn, He calls that flop and you have the blockers to AK right? So what's he got here? QQ KK and AK. Maybe AQ.

Unlikely hands are QK/KJ/QJ. But these are low stakes and this kind of play is expected.

If you're going to bet the turn , I think you fold to his 3bet. What are you beating? AK and AQ are the only hands that should be in that you beat. You lose to everything else.

Check/call turn and river or check/fold turn is fine I think. It's hard to gauge cos like you said, no hands on villain, and its low stakes so people overvalue lots of hands.

Yeah I agree and that's why I was so annoyed with how I played the hand. I'm disregarding KK from his range as I'm pretty sure 95% of players are 4betting and stacking off pre. QQ is the only hand that is beating me that makes sense, I guess I'm almost always stacking off post flop though, my issue I think might be my flop sizing, if I bet bigger then it enables me to shove turn. Other alternative of course is to just check turn like you say but if I'm going to be calling and then calling any blank river then shouldn't I be betting myself just to deny his 1 pair hands a free card? I guess by checking though I am keeping his range wider so it balances out.

As played though, can I fold?

Just post the hand history? This replayer is weaksauce.

Just a cooler. If you do anything other than stack off here, you're playing wrong.

Hand is fine, you can argue a bigger 3 bet pre since you are 200bb deep against the initial raiser and it is 2NL

+1 to posting the HH, these replayers are garbage and make me salty when I am on mobile

I'd rather check flop. It's unlikely we're going to get three streets of value from a worse hand. AK is probably stacking off at these stakes and calling down, but realistically should be folding against a 3-barrel. We also block AK. There's no FD out there either, and even if there were one I'd still check. Most of the time if we stack off here against any raises I think we're going to be behind.

We are way behind or way ahead here. Checking might also get Qx to look us up. What's nice about checking flop also is that if it's checked around and we get raised on the turn, we can safely fold. Turn raises are almost always very strong and not often a bluff. Especially since it is multiway and a 3-bet pot, a turn bluff-raise is just never happening. And also if we are not checking AA here, then our checking range is pretty much entirely air and some combos of QQ/KK. AK should also be checked here too since it has almost the same relative hand strength as AA.

Pretty terrible way to play 66. But when you get raised on the turn, you're always always dead. The stack sizes were too awkward to fold, and check-calling or check-folding aren't so great. Check-folding can be considered though, but this is 2NL where people might do random spaz. When he calls the flop, he should be really strong because someone is still left to act behind him. He has to fold Qx here against a c-bet from PFR and CO behind him. He shouldn't be floating here to make a move on the turn. So realistically he can only have AK or better here. Some KQs combos, QQ, some KK combos, and rarely 55 (yes, people do occasionally cold-call with PP). AK should check turn for pot control, so when he bets he's going to be pretty strong. It's also unlikely he'd turn a hand into a bluff with the SPR now 1. I just ship it in as played but expecting to be way behind almost everytime.

MinhANguyen said:

I'd rather check flop. It's unlikely we're going to get three streets of value from a worse hand. AK is probably stacking off at these stakes and calling down, but realistically should be folding against a 3-barrel. We also block AK. There's no FD out there either, and even if there were one I'd still check. Most of the time if we stack off here against any raises I think we're going to be behind.

We are way behind or way ahead here. Checking might also get Qx to look us up. What's nice about checking flop also is that if it's checked around and we get raised on the turn, we can safely fold. Turn raises are almost always very strong and not often a bluff. Especially since it is multiway and a 3-bet pot, a turn bluff-raise is just never happening. And also if we are not checking AA here, then our checking range is pretty much entirely air and some combos of QQ/KK. AK should also be checked here too imo.

Pretty terrible way to play 66. But when you get raised on the turn, you're always always dead. The stack sizes were too awkward to fold, and check-calling or check-folding aren't so great. Check-folding can be considered though, but this is 2NL where people might do random spaz. When he calls the flop, he should be really strog because someone is still left to act behind him. He has to fold Qx here against a c-bet from PFR and CO behind him. So realistically he can only have AK or better here. Some KQs combos, QQ, some KK combos, and rarely 55 (yes, people do occasionally cold-call with PP). So when be bets the turnSo I just ship it in as played but expecting to be way behind almost everytime.

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Did you see how villain played 66? Called flop with 66, Remember it is 2NL. I think betting AA for value here is kind of a slam dunk. I do like checking sometimes against regs we have history with but I am just betting against randoms.

Also if we check flop how can we fold when we bet turn after showing weakness on flop? FWIW I do agree that turn raises are generally very strong but that is usually when we double barrel and then get raised.

Think that's a little results oriented. And when it is 25NL and especially onwards where people generally play better, c-betting here with AA on a rainbow board is not that great.

Just because we check does not mean we are weak. We still have AK/KQs/AA/KK/QQ in our range. And nobody's ever bluff-raising multi-way in a 3-bet pot OTT unless they're completely crazy.

Imo turn raises are almost always strong, whether the flop was checked around or bet. If they really wanted to bluff, they'd have stabbed the flop or stabbed the turn if they were OOP. I find this true for general population tendencies. It almost always mean they were trapping OTF or hit gin OTT. Now if it were a creative reg who is a great hand reader and a sick bluffer willing to make moves for stacks + on just a read, someone like Tom Dwan, we might consider calling.

MinhANguyen said:

Think that's a little results oriented. And when it is 25NL and especially onwards where people generally play better, c-betting here with AA is not that great.

Just because we check does not mean we are weak. We should still have AK/KQs/AA/KK/QQ in our range. And nobody's ever bluff-raising multi-way in a 3-bet pot OTT unless they're completely crazy.

Imo turn raises are almost always strong, whether the flop was checked around or bet. If they really wanted to bluff, they'd have stabbed the flop or stabbed the turn if they were OOP. I find this true for general population tendencies. Now if it were a creative reg who is a great hand reader and a sick bluffer, someone like Tom Dwan, we have to consider calling.

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Naw, its 2NL. This type of play is pretty standard. I was just using it as an example that people are not playing perfect or even good poker at these stakes and are going to have much wider ranges then you are suggesting on a regular basis.

I'm not sure why you bring up 25NL when the hand was played at 2NL, I think there is a big difference between these player pools and I agree'd that against better villains checking sometimes is good.

It is also not that we will get bluffed because we check flop but we underrep our hand and that will lead to villains overplaying their hand thinking AK is good. They may even think that means their JJ is good and go with it at these stakes, people spaz all the time.

Moral of the post, people make bad plays at 2NL and we should capitalize on that instead of looking for reasons to fold/pot control against fish that will stack off light. As we move up and into harder player pools with more regs, I prefer your line.

I would think
the mistake you made here is
you are not sure about the calling range of this player?
What range he could continue with any bet here? two pair, Tp pair draw, middle pair??

you see he continue with middle pair, he think you are bluff.

therefore I think the betting size here you choose is wrong- it comes from you don't know if you bet, what type or kind of hands he could call or call or call. I would trip-pot here. since he is a station/OBV it is after this hand. You have 70%-75% wining chance here.
add your stack and his stack together, betting at least 60% stack, regardless he will call or not.

PS: Do not think about balance your betting size against this player, just max value, 60% effective stack size betting is Optimus regardless he is going to call, reraise or whatever. you win what you ought to.

but I still think the mistake is you don't have enough data to support you making the best decision here.

IPlay said:

Naw, its 2NL. This type of play is pretty standard. I was just using it as an example that people are not playing perfect or even good poker at these stakes and are going to have much wider ranges then you are suggesting on a regular basis.

I'm not sure why you bring up 25NL when the hand was played at 2NL, I think there is a big difference between these player pools and I agree'd that against better villains checking sometimes is good.

It is also not that we will get bluffed because we check flop but we underrep our hand and that will lead to villains overplaying their hand thinking AK is good. They may even think that means their JJ is good and go with it at these stakes, people spaz all the time.

Moral of the post, people make bad plays at 2NL and we should capitalize on that instead of looking for reasons to fold/pot control against fish that will stack off light. As we move up and into harder player pools with more regs, I prefer your line.

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Well I never played 2NL and I can't really say I remember much from 5NL/10NL. But if you people spaz out like they do there, then the play is good. And I think if someone had AK they'd just bet it rather than raise, or a hand with SDV like JJ just call. It seems a little bizarre to check, check-raise or check, raise IP in a 3-bet multiway pot with TP with all the broadway draws out there or 3rd pair to the board. Never seen it, but it is 2NL. I would find that a little amusing though if I saw it lol.