$2 NLHE 6-max: 10s in a 4bet pot vs a tilting player

So little info to help you all out..This player (He just lost the past 10 pots in a row), so yeah I'd be steaming If I were him also..

Some-times (he'd lose by suck-out), other times (he'd lose by spazzing away his chips)...

He just lost this pot to me and the following hand is the 10s situation..


pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (5 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($4.06)
Hero (BB) ($4.63)
UTG ($8.83)
MP ($5.04)
Button ($3.04)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q , Q
2 folds, Button bets $0.06, SB calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.22, Button calls $0.16, SB calls $0.16

Flop: ($0.66) J , J , 7 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.38, Button raises to $2.82 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls $2.44

Turn: ($6.30) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($6.30) 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $6.30 | Rake: $0.22

Results:
Button had 9 , 3 (one pair, Jacks).
Hero had Q , Q (two pair, Queens and Jacks).
Outcome: Hero won $6.08


Now the 10s situation is totally different in the sense that it's not just him in the pot now but also (another straight up no joke spazz), I mean total spazz (and If you can narrow his range gl with it)..

poker stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1994118
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $6.71
Hero (BTN): $7.79
SB: $9.00
BB: $3.43
UTG: $5.71
MP: $5.04

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN with T :spade: T :heart:
1 fold, MP raises to $0.06, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.20, SB calls $0.19, 1 fold, MP raises to $0.65, Hero calls $0.45, SB calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.97) 5 :diamond: 9 :spade: 7 :club: (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets $1.60, Hero?


Now I know, I should state that the possibility of him actually having a hand this time could be a fact (I realize this 100%, It could happen), the question is did it happen? Also have to take into account the other spazz left to act, how do I handle him? If I flat and spazz left to act takes this as weakness from me and decides to shove A.I, than I'm screwed correct? Also what the hell does the 4bettor actually do this with? Is this ever AIR from the O.R 4bettor? Are they spazzing? Is he valuing me (taking into account his precieved image at the table and working it)?
So what do you all do if you were in shoes vs these 2 players

eurgh. Honestly have no idea. Prolly gonna call then call his shove on the turn and be like: Nh when QQ comes up. Better players than me will comment though.

This is so read dependent. I don't even think I can help you with this at all. Especially without stats.

I'm either:
1.folding to the 4bet if it's the first time I've seen him 4b
2. Raising the flop bc I do not want SB in this hand at all when I have such a weak overpair

This seems to me like an actual hand though. I don't think there's any chance that he's smart enough to be repping a big hand with complete air

JCgrind said:

This is so read dependent. I don't even think I can help you with this at all. Especially without stats.

I'm either:
1.folding to the 4bet if it's the first time I've seen him 4b
2. Raising the flop bc I do not want SB in this hand at all when I have such a weak overpair

This seems to me like an actual hand though. I don't think there's any chance that he's smart enough to be repping a big hand with complete air

Click to expand...

This ^ I probably fold the flop though.

OMG I honestly thought I had posted the stats with the hand, I'll get on it right now..

These are the stats for the hand (myself included)


Poker Stars $2.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players - View hand 1994113
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $6.71 - VPIP: 46, PFR: 12, 3B: 7, AF: 4.2, hands: 106
Hero (BTN): $7.79 - VPIP: 23, PFR: 14, 3B: 4, AF: 1.6, Hands: 14315
SB: $9.00 - VPIP: 46, PFR: 22, 3B: 16, AF: 0.5, Hands: 63
BB: $3.43 - VPIP: 13, PFR: 12, 3B: 14, AF: Infinity, Hands: 124
UTG: $5.71 - VPIP: 27, PFR: 21, 3B: 3, AF: 4.2, Hands: 119
MP: $5.04 - VPIP: 29, PFR: 25, 3B: 16, AF: 2.6, Hands: 170


Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BTN with T :spade: T :heart:
1 fold, MP raises to $0.06, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.20, SB calls $0.19, 1 fold, MP raises to $0.65, Hero calls $0.45, SB calls $0.45

Flop: ($1.97) 5 :diamond: 9 :spade: 7 :club: (3 players)
SB checks, MP bets $1.60, Hero?


I don't know how to post individual stats though (sry), but his 4bet is 50% (6 times he's been in that situation)

I fold without good reads which is like almost always here but,

just shoveling it in on the flop if you think he is a spazz (which im doubtful of), yeah youre gonna lose to JJ+ every now and again but if you think he is a spazz you are going to win a nice pot a ton vs all his bluffs that are c-betting, worse hands that he spazz 4bet and cant fold cause he has tp with A9o or whatever. Also the sb never has anything and has a ton of shit we beat that probably calls if hes tilting.

Bit concerned with your assumption that mp is a spazz though? 29/25 seems like he knows atleast something about poker and not being spazzy postflop perhaps? Id probably just fold the flop here every time if all i knew was he was a 29/25, its down to you to assess how spazzy he is really, he'd have to be really braindead to stack 600bb's + with any TP here and just because he is active preflop does not mean anything about how active he is postflop.

If someone would be kind enough to walk me through (how to actually only retrieve the hands he's been A.I not vs me but the other players as I stated), than I can help you all out with a bettor decision...Truth be told I was totally lost in this hand, that's why I'm asking

A 3/6 4 bet? This would make it 4/7.

He just lost any credibility in my eyes. Is flatting the flop and shoving any turn bar an ace over a second barrel a bad move? Obv if we raise the flop he folds his air and calls with hands that beat us.

I like flatting flop, getting it in on any turn.

Why are we 3btting pre if we're so afraid of the 4bet that we should be expecting?

WVHillbilly said:

Why are we 3btting pre if we're so afraid of the 4bet that we should be expecting?

Click to expand...

This is a good point...I wasn't so much afraid of the actual 4bet per-say (well I don't like 4bets but happens )...Yet the fact that there's SB me and him in the hand, and than to actually donk large on the flop into 2 players is the only thing that really (stuck out at me, if that makes any sense)

Also why so large if your really trying to get me to make a mistake (would it not be better to make it something in which case, looks like it may/ or may-not want a call (trying to get me to induce)? Yet this bet looks more like AA/KK/JJ/QQ that wants to make it look like AK/AQ/AJs or pure air and at the same time is scared of the low flop/possible straight draws that are out there