2/5cent NLHE: What range do you put him on?

pokerstars Game #11403753521: Hold'em No Limit ($0.02/$0.05) - 2007/08/09 - 22:40:04 (ET)
Table 'Aludra' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: BabyHumvee ($6.40 in chips)
Seat 2: gimpo241 ($10.26 in chips)
Seat 3: shordee8 ($3.98 in chips)
Seat 4: zmanbeer30 ($2.25 in chips)
Seat 5: cjwpap01 ($4.36 in chips)
Seat 6: Cap57 ($3.37 in chips)
cjwpap01: posts small blind $0.02
Cap57: posts big blind $0.05
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BabyHumvee [Qh Qs]
BabyHumvee: raises $0.10 to $0.15
gimpo241: calls $0.15
shordee8: folds
zmanbeer30: folds
cjwpap01: calls $0.13
Cap57: calls $0.10
*** FLOP *** [Js 4h 5h]
cjwpap01: checks
Cap57: checks
BabyHumvee: bets $0.65
gimpo241: calls $0.65
cjwpap01: folds
Cap57: folds
*** TURN *** [Js 4h 5h] 6♣
BabyHumvee: bets $1.55
gimpo241: raises $1.55 to $3.10

Any reads?

This could be a lot of things. An inviting bet could mean something marginal (ex 67), something semi-strong (KJ), or a monster (set). I think the majority of the time it's a big hand, though.

He has played reasonable to this point; nothing trappy and haven't seen any bluffs yet. I've been at the table about 7-8 orbits and have been playing rather tight.

raise wayyy more preflop. Round these tables, I'd make it 6BB prob here.

As for the turn, he thinks his hand is v good, thats for sure. It just up to you if he thinks QJ is in that catagory, or if its onlys sets/2pair/strts

I know generally I should probably raise more. But anytime I enter a pot I try to keep it same size whether AA or 78s.

skoldpadda said:

He has played reasonable to this point; nothing trappy and haven't seen any bluffs yet. I've been at the table about 7-8 orbits and have been playing rather tight.

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I just dont know how you can play at these levels - 7-8 orbits moving your stack up to $12, down to $6 up to $10 etc etc, do you get any excitement out of doing that? You seem to be a smart guy and a good player, can't you play a bit higher?

skoldpadda said:

I know generally I should probably raise more. But anytime I enter a pot I try to keep it same size whether AA or 78s.

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but then you get left with conundrums like this. For 15 cents he could be playing anything that could possibly win a hand. His min-raise at the turn is either inviting you to stay in the pot, or a very half-hearted attmpt to get you to fold.

skoldpadda said:

I know generally I should probably raise more. But anytime I enter a pot I try to keep it same size whether AA or 78s.

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right, and if you have AA or 78s, you should be raising a lot more than 3BBs at this table

dbitel said:

right, and if you have AA or 78s, you should be raising a lot more than 3BBs at this table

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And to another point. When players are bad you won't have to worry a whole bunch about deception. They will probably be making enough mistakes as it is that you want to go ahead and play as most +EV as you can.

So, then what is the most +EV move here?

skoldpadda said:

So, then what is the most +EV move here?

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Well, you didn't ask that you asked what his range was!

It depends on reads, but this tends to be a monster hand here. If his is aggressive you might be able to get AI profitably(as mentioned a pair of J's may be in his range).

The thing that you need to do is decide whether it is profitable or not to get all in before you bet the turn. If it is not profitable AND you don't know that it is a fold if you are check-raised then you should probably just check. If he is passive and won't check-raise you without having you beat then betting is fine as it bets value from when he is bluffing. You don't want to make a habit out of gettin 1/3 of our stack in and then folding(a la PNL).

there is no voting option for combo draw! he could also be making this play with something like J7h/J8h.

but anyway, i think this is a coinflip at best, most likely you are pretty far behind, if not drawing dead.

Yes, I didn't even think about combo draw with a suited jack. He'd been playing reasonable TAG starting hands, so I didn't really consider something like J8h as part of his range. This guy was ABC to this point.

I didn't think he'd have an overpair since he'd re-raise me PF. I didn't put him on a flush draw since he min-raised the turn. With potential flush draw out there on the flop, I didn't think he had a set or 2 pair on the flop since he seemed like the type of player to raise my flop bet if he did to protect his hand.

So, in the situation with this particular player and this read, I really thought he might be getting feisty with semi-bluffing with something like 77. I thought he remotely might have called the flop with a gut shot with 78suited hearts. And of course since bluffing with overcards is a part of his range or maybe he thinks AJ or KJ is good, he could be min-raising light. All things considered, I thought he might be taking advantage of my nitty play trying to get me to lay down an overpair.

What happened next though is beyond any explanation:

*** TURN *** [Js 4h 5h] [6c]
BabyHumvee: bets $1.55
gimpo241: raises $1.55 to $3.10
BabyHumvee: raises $2.50 to $5.60 and is all-in
gimpo241: calls $2.50
*** RIVER *** [Js 4h 5h 6c] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
BabyHumvee: shows [Qh Qs] (a pair of Queens)
gimpo241: mucks hand
BabyHumvee collected $12.45 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $13.10 | Rake $0.65
Board [Js 4h 5h 6c 9s]
Seat 1: BabyHumvee showed [Qh Qs] and won ($12.45) with a pair of Queens
Seat 2: gimpo241 mucked [Qc Kd]
Seat 3: shordee8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: zmanbeer30 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: cjwpap01 (small blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 6: Cap57 (big blind) folded on the Flop

So the whole time the guy had a draw for over pairs. I just don't get the calling a all in on a draw. Maybe someone can explain the strategy to me, because the guy had one card to go, and in his mind he had 6 outs, 4 outs if he put his opponent on a flush draw. In reality he had 3 outs total for his king, and he still over bet the pot and then called a re-raise all in. It's plays like these I just don't get, if your caught then be caught, why give away two dollars? Well good play, because I think I might be tempted to lay it down, I would have put him on a made straight.

Yeah i think the first hand he had AJ probaly....not sure the 2nd hand idk people do that its fun to take their money when they do

LOL, there is only 1 hand, bronco.