10NL: QQ, 4-bet PF?

ajrobin

ajrobin

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Total posts
653
Chips
0
I know im posting alot of hands, just doubting my decisions I think. Here i decided to flat the 3bet OOP as my thinking was im flipping with AK and am crushed by AA KK and at these levels those are the only cards people like to 3bet with (very few people 3bet light). I think I gave up way too easily on the flop, I was getting nearly 3-1 odds but I just didnt want to see another card OOP drawing to two outs too improve, would you peel another card and see what he does on the turn?

Villian: 48/24/4, havent seen him 3bet before this hand.

poker stars, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

CO: $9.80
BTN: $13.45
Hero (SB): $10.45
BB: $11.60
UTG: $4
UTG+1: $10.40
UTG+2: $14.15
MP1: $2.45
MP2: $5.95

Pre-Flop: Q
spadenormal.gif
Q
heartnormal.gif
dealt to Hero (SB)
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $0.40, UTG+2 raises to $1.20, 4 folds, Hero calls $1.15, 2 folds

Flop: ($2.90) A
spadenormal.gif
4
diamondnormal.gif
5
clubnormal.gif
(2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $1, Hero folds (Way too easily??)
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
I 4-bet all day long, but the regs at Ultimatebet 3-bet light like its their job. Even against tight 3-bettors, I'd still probably 4-bet QQ smallish and fold to a shove against a nitty 3-bettor. But even then I'd have a hard time laying down QQ preflop 100 bb's deep. I've only done it like once.

C/folding flop is fine. But I think the big mistake in the hand is not 4-betting.
 
G

GrantGreen

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 5, 2008
Total posts
105
Chips
0
I saw a vid at CardRunners where the instructor gave a basic rule of thumb for QQ and AK at micros.
If you raise w/ QQ and are 3 bet, flat and get it in on a non A or K flop.
If you raise w/ AK and are 3 bet, then go ahead and 4 bet shove.

I know in this hand you weren't the original raiser, but you can adapt the "rule" for this situation.
 
PokerVic

PokerVic

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 17, 2008
Total posts
822
Chips
0
That flop bet is so low, I'd be tempted to call it and see what happens on the turn. Out of position, though, you'd be hoping for a miracle turn or that he shuts down the betting. A large VP$IP can mean villain is playing lots of aces, so the low bet might just be that he's worried about his kicker. As played, the fold is probably the right decision.
 
V

vpb0i

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Total posts
184
Chips
0
Well what i would of done is reraise him preflop and if he pushes, id call with in a heart beat, but since you call only to his raise on preflop and the ace came, you cant really play thoses qs that strong, if you wanted to see the turn, the right move is to reraise him from 1 to like 2.50, just to see where you stand, if he pushes then obv he got the ace, no point of calling tryin to get a 2 outer, jus reraise him preflop more.
 
calibanboy

calibanboy

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 7, 2007
Total posts
363
Chips
0
My view is that you raise or fold.

It depends on your image to that player before this hand.

Dont call.
 
A

alannemat

Rising Star
Bronze Level
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Total posts
12
Chips
0
insta fold. his range is AK, KK, AQ, AJ, AA, JJ. You're beat here imho more often tha not.
 
S

switch0723

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Total posts
8,430
Chips
0
before i comment, how many hands is villain's stats from??
 
ajrobin

ajrobin

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Total posts
653
Chips
0
Smallish hand sample size, I think at the time between 60 and 90.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Total posts
9,218
Chips
0
So let me get this right. You think villain's range is strictly KK+ and AK and your plan is to flat call preflop, then lose you stack on a low flop vs. KK+, win a small pot on a low flop vs. AK and fold to villain's cbet when A or K shows up, is that right? So basically you're playing this for set value with additional negative implied odds when a low flop comes, right? Looks like a great plan...

If you do think villain's range is AK,KK+, then it's a fold preflop. you don't have proper odds to set mine.
 
S

switch0723

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 2, 2007
Total posts
8,430
Chips
0
I don't mind the flat call preflop instead of 4 betting sinceour 4 bet is only going to be called/raised by queens+. We are better off flat callin and allowing hands such as a,q, jj, TT maybe even a loose a,j to bet the flop. So ye i don't mind the flat call pre

On the flop though, we always have to call this bet since it screams i has an underpair. It's just a case of whether its kings or jacks/tens, so i call flop then check/reevaluate turn
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Total posts
9,218
Chips
0
i actually don't think flat calling is so wrong here, but that's because I think villain's range is more than KK+,AK. All i say is that if OP is correct in his estimation of villain's range, then the correct play is to fold preflop.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

Is drawing with AK
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Total posts
8,819
Chips
0
Yeah, we're totally debating not 4-betting a 48/24. This is awesome.
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Total posts
9,218
Chips
0
Yeah, we're totally debating not 4-betting a 48/24. This is awesome.

LOL.

FWIW, if this was 6max and the 48/24 villain was on the button, i would probably consider 4bet bluffing with ATC and i'm pretty sure it would show a profit.

Of course i would 4bet this. OP's range estimate is insanely tight IMO. I thought I made that clear in my posts above by advocating that we fold QQ based on his read.
 
ajrobin

ajrobin

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 29, 2008
Total posts
653
Chips
0
I suxxorz at poker. No seriously I knew I didnt play this hand at all well, which is why I posted it. It was in the middle of a slump and looking back now I was playing scared, unwilling to lose more then I already had.

Note to self: Scared money is lost money.
 
Top