10nl 6max 67s multiway flops nuts

Deltafrost · Jan 26, 2009

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

Hero (MP) ($16.85)
Button ($10)
SB ($21.75)
BB ($6.95)
UTG ($11.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 7

, 6

UTG raises to $0.30, Hero calls $0.30, Button calls $0.30, SB calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($1.50) 4

, 3

, 5

(5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $1.10, Hero ???, 4 folds

do we cold call to get more action or are we just trying to get it in? just not sure anything except overpairs and sets call us, which obviously we're ahead of but do they have it enough to be the most profitable line?

i know getting it in is +ev, but is it the best +ev line we have?

Lemlywinks · Jan 27, 2009

I like a flat here with the intention of raising on the turn and getting it in there. I'm not really seeing much that can hurt you by giving him another street to bet into you

CMAZ · Jan 27, 2009

I like a flat here to!

The only time you need to worry is if the board pairs on later streets otherwise giving him a free card to catch up may just help you enough to stack him.

Steveg1976 · Jan 27, 2009

Do you have reads on the villian?

S93 · Jan 27, 2009

I raise here.
Flatting we might get more money from 22,55-TT and overcards(and obvs. sets) on the turn but there so many scare cars for villains range,T,J,Q,K,A are all potential action killers and this is 10NL so where asuming no one is folding a over pair here so raise to 3$ here and expect to be called/shoved over by hands like 88 just as often as villain folds.

TheseNutsWin · Jan 27, 2009

Calling is good and like others are advising turn should be where you start being aggressive...

JimmyBrizzy · Jan 27, 2009

I don't exactly like playing the hand from the start in a raised pot, especially if the table is leaning towards the loose side.

I usually try to play the opposite style of my table, so if people are raising and everyone at the table being involved in every hand is the usual scenario its probably better to tighten up. Anyone want to tell me why this is okay without any reads? Been a while since I've played 6max, but I'm honestly just curious - also nit-picking a tad.

Anyway it already shows the 4 players after you folded, but I would raise this up to get value from overpairs, Ax's that think they have overs and a straight draw, pocket pairs, and possibly sets - especially when you have everyone still in the hand I think there's a good chance you can get value from raising.

I think there is a decent chance that UTG will call your raise as well in most cases since he raised preflop, and led into 4 players with a c-bet. I think raising it up close to 2.00(around 1/2 pot) would be able to extract some value.

The Shrog · Jan 27, 2009

I put in a raise here. I think by flatting, a lot of scare cards can fall in the case that our opponent has 99/1010. At this limit, $3 total I think would be ideal.

baudib1 · Jan 28, 2009

Raise always. There's almost never a good reason to slowplay a straight.

More than half of the possible turn cards are ugly: A, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, plus overs to pocket pairs, are really scary and could kill the action or beat us. Raise.

Styrofoam · Jan 28, 2009

i raise here too... i've seen the nuts turn into the second best hand too many times.

Deltafrost · Jan 29, 2009

Styrofoam said:
i raise here too... i've seen the nuts turn into the second best hand too many times.

thats just variance...not a reason for making a certain decision on any street.

as it happens i raised and everyone folded. just wasnt sure if it was the best decision at 10nl.

what if this was at say 100nl? any input from the higher ups?

tenbob · Jan 29, 2009

What more does UTG need to tell you. He raised pre and led into 4 players post flop. Looks to me like a big pair, and the board dosnt seem to phase him. I raise here almost always, too many turn cards kill the action. (If he has KK an ace kills our action etc..)

Styrofoam · Jan 31, 2009

Deltafrost said:
thats just variance...not a reason for making a certain decision on any street.

as it happens i raised and everyone folded. just wasnt sure if it was the best decision at 10nl.

what if this was at say 100nl? any input from the higher ups?

I disagree that this is just variance. You have to get your money in when your hand is good and charge people to draw at better hands. if you flat call against someone with 55, and the board pairs, and you let them bet it without changing the odds, they're making money, and you're losing money.

Instead, you raise the flop and charge him to re-draw. And if the board pairs, so be it. Use the fundamental theorem of poker. Make them make a mistake they wouldn't otherwise make if they knew your hole cards....(in this case another mistake... betting out, then CALLING a raise against the odds to improve)

Not to mention, what tenbob said, how many action killing cards are there? Aces, twos (against anything but AA, and even they might think twice before calling a big bet with the idiot end of a straight) sixes, sevens? If a 6 or seven come out, you might still win, but the only hands that call you are hands you'll split with or hands that have you beaten. Against QQ-88, any overcard could kill the action...

You HAVE to bet strong while the board is in your favor.

Deltafrost · Feb 4, 2009

Styrofoam said:
I disagree that this is just variance. You have to get your money in when your hand is good and charge people to draw at better hands. if you flat call against someone with 55, and the board pairs, and you let them bet it without changing the odds, they're making money, and you're losing money.

in that instance i agree. if they have 55 or something like that they are staying around anyway, and stacks will go in so i consider it a cooler just depends on who ends up ahead. if i had 55 there im stacking all day vs ANY opponent.

Instead, you raise the flop and charge him to re-draw. And if the board pairs, so be it. Use the fundamental theorem of poker. Make them make a mistake they wouldn't otherwise make if they knew your hole cards....(in this case another mistake... betting out, then CALLING a raise against the odds to improve)

remember we have a range, and against a villains range top set is CRUSHING it. especially an unknown at these levels.

Not to mention, what tenbob said, how many action killing cards are there? Aces, twos (against anything but AA, and even they might think twice before calling a big bet with the idiot end of a straight) sixes, sevens? If a 6 or seven come out, you might still win, but the only hands that call you are hands you'll split with or hands that have you beaten. Against QQ-88, any overcard could kill the action...

This i do agree with. hence the reason i asked. thank you for supporting the idea that i was beginning to agree with anyway.

You HAVE to bet strong while the board is in your favor.

the result is not the point, the point is maximizing expected value and if betting folds out hands we can get value from on later streets moreso than it gives odds for sets/gutshots to draw to better hands, then the correct call is checking imo.

the rest of your argument i agree with

Styrofoam · Feb 4, 2009

i wasn't trying to be results oriented here, just saying to take away any drawing odds, and get your money in when its good.

Jagsti · Feb 4, 2009

If I was up against one villain, I may just flat. But against 4 villains you have to raise here. As has been said there are a lot of turn cards that can make this hand go ugly. If one villain has overpair the good were almost always getting it in with them. Hopefully one has a set even. But yeah you have to raise in this scenario.

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10nl 6max 67s multiway flops nuts

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