10NL; 55 Flopped Set

royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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Bottom set facing 2/3 pot bet, diamond draw and possible straight draws on board. What is our line for the rest of the hand?

full tilt poker Game #5006939258: Table Tara - $0.05/$0.10 - No Limit Hold'em - 18:26:51 ET - 2008/01/26
Seat 1: royalburrito24 ($9.95)
Seat 2: FillEyeBee ($7.05)
Seat 3: Silent N ($4.90)
Seat 4: Firm Game ($13.10)
Seat 5: Lerry24 ($7.20)
Seat 6: BWenzel ($2)
Seat 7: Brizzle00 ($4.55)
Seat 8: 7yankee7 ($3.75)
Seat 9: young mack ($9.25)
Lerry24 posts the small blind of $0.05
BWenzel posts the big blind of $0.10
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to royalburrito24 [5d 5h]
Brizzle00 folds
Brizzle00 stands up
7yankee7 raises to $0.20
young mack calls $0.20
royalburrito24 calls $0.20
FillEyeBee folds
Silent N calls $0.20
Firm Game folds
Lerry24 folds
BWenzel folds
*** FLOP *** [5s 7d 8d]
7yankee7 bets $0.60
young mack folds
royalburrito24 ??
 
blankoblanco

blankoblanco

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you can start by raising.. around $2 looks good. obv call a shove. if you just get called, re-evaluate caller and turn card
 
Tygran

Tygran

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fairly standard c-bet on villains part although he only min raised (not unusual at $10 NL). I doubt you are beat right now (4/6, 6/9, 77, 88 being the only hands you are worried about). I think you see any overpair, AK/AQ/A8/A6, Ax of diamonds, any 2 diamonds, 78, 89, possibly any 6 etc etc all making this type of bet as well.

Villain is short stacked too. You have to raise (make it ~$1.5 to $2) and call a shove if he makes it. You will probably have to stack him if he doesn't do it for you I think (aka if he just flat calls go ahead and put him all in on the turn regardless of the card.. he doesn't have enough left behind to make you fold). If he flopped a better hand, I think you just have to pay it off here but you will be ahead far more than you are behind.


If the villain is deeper stacked then you can play this differently/more cautiously. I wouldn't just flat call and give him a cheaper chance to improve on you.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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I be a donk, and make donk min raise. I am not proud of it one bit.

royalburrito24 raises to $1.20
Silent N folds
7yankee7 calls $0.60
*** TURN *** [5s 7d 8d] [Jd]
7yankee7 checks
royalburrito24 ??

What's next?
 
zachvac

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BET. Bet flop, bet turn, bet river, bet post-river and even on 8th street. If he caught his flush it's your own fault but even if he does you still have outs.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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BET. Bet flop, bet turn, bet river, bet post-river and even on 8th street. If he caught his flush it's your own fault but even if he does you still have outs.

How would it be my fault if he caught his flush?

I could give him the worst odds ever to draw to his flush and he's still drawing at 10NL.
 
Emperor IX

Emperor IX

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How would it be my fault if he caught his flush?

I could give him the worst odds ever to draw to his flush and he's still drawing at 10NL.

Because as played you gave him GOOD odds.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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Because as played you gave him GOOD odds.

:eek:

Agreed, but how would it be my fault if he hits his draw? I lose him completely if I do give him bad odds and he does recognize it, and folds.
 
Emperor IX

Emperor IX

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:eek:

Agreed, but how would it be my fault if he hits his draw? I lose him completely if I do give him bad odds and he does recognize it, and folds.

I see what you're getting at but if he's getting good odds, then he's not making a mistake. Adversely, you are. 10nl is all about making the obvious plays, but 10nl is still poker, and therefore the fundamental theorem still applies.
 
zachvac

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How would it be my fault if he caught his flush?

I could give him the worst odds ever to draw to his flush and he's still drawing at 10NL.

Do you fully understand the concept of giving an opponent odds and equity? Currently some of the money in that pot is his, he has a chance to hit his flush draw and get ahead. Fortunately, we get a betting round. We could obviously go all-in and we'd take down the pot right there (or else I think we all agree a call would be good for us, assuming he doesn't have like a higher set). We want to bet enough such that our opponents:
1. doesn't have odds (we don't want to give them implied odds either)
2. will still call


When an opponent makes a mistake, like calling without odds, they lose and you win. Too many people seem to think that when an opponent is drawing we want them to fold. Not true. We want them to call without odds. We win more money that way.
 
royalburrito24

royalburrito24

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Do you fully understand the concept of giving an opponent odds and equity? Currently some of the money in that pot is his, he has a chance to hit his flush draw and get ahead. Fortunately, we get a betting round. We could obviously go all-in and we'd take down the pot right there (or else I think we all agree a call would be good for us, assuming he doesn't have like a higher set). We want to bet enough such that our opponents:
1. doesn't have odds (we don't want to give them implied odds either)
2. will still call


When an opponent makes a mistake, like calling without odds, they lose and you win. Too many people seem to think that when an opponent is drawing we want them to fold. Not true. We want them to call without odds. We win more money that way.


I understand completely what your are saying. I guess the way I interpreted your first post it sounded like it would be my fault if he got lucky, which is absurd.

Well, I made my stupid little min raise, and this is what happens next:

Silent N folds
7yankee7 calls $0.60
*** TURN *** [5s 7d 8d] [Jd]
7yankee7 checks
royalburrito24 ??

Now that the flush and the 10 9 straight draws got there, do we still bet?
 
Tygran

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At this point the pot is $3.20 and villain has $2.35 left behind if i did the math right?

Jd one of the worst card that could hit but his check is somewhat interesting. It of course could be a slowplay move but it could be 2 pair (or even one pair at this limit) and he is actually scared of the draws. We don't really know however.

One thing I want to stress is that you have to pay attention to how much money is in your opponent(s) stacks. It makes a significant difference in your decisions throughout the hand.

That flop min raise put us in a nasty spot.. no matter what he has he's not folding to a minraise, and we gain no information from it. It also gives him odds to draw at a flush which is a huge mistake (I sorta skimmed the last several posts so looks like this one has already been beaten to death). If he's gonna draw to the flush regardless of the cost then make him pay the maximum, not the minimum. If he's gonna make it he's gonna make it, but you won't get money from him once he whiffs trying to hit it.

Anyway... Check behind him here and see what the river brings (pray for the board to pair). If it's a blank on the river see what he does.. I'd probably call/check behind him although if he shoves you probably just ought to bail.
 
zachvac

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I understand completely what your are saying. I guess the way I interpreted your first post it sounded like it would be my fault if he got lucky, which is absurd.

Well, I made my stupid little min raise, and this is what happens next:

Silent N folds
7yankee7 calls $0.60
*** TURN *** [5s 7d 8d] J♦
7yankee7 checks
royalburrito24 ??

Now that the flush and the 10 9 straight draws got there, do we still bet?

If you give him odds, he did not get lucky. It would be like if you let someone give you $1 if they rolled a 1-5 on a die but gave them 20 if they rolled a 6. Would you complain about them getting lucky if it happened? That said I think you have to check behind here. We're probably still ahead, but there's no reason to bet here. Keep the pot small. If we have them beat this is a scare card for them and if this hit them they obviously think they have the best hand.
 
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