1010 multiway. [10NL] 6max

Deltafrost

Deltafrost

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Both players are complete unknowns. hands like 1010 and jj really confuse me multiway. basically need critique on overall play.

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (5 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

UTG ($10.15)
MP ($10.55)
Button ($17.30)
SB ($60.55)
Hero (BB) ($18.35)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10
diamond.gif
, 10
club.gif

1 fold, MP raises to $0.30, Button raises to $0.60, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.50, MP calls $0.30

Flop: ($1.85) 6
heart.gif
, 2
heart.gif
, 9
diamond.gif
(3 players)
Hero bets $1.50, 1 fold, Button calls $1.50

Turn: ($4.85) 7
spade.gif
(2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $2.80, Hero calls $2.80

River: ($10.45) 9
club.gif
(2 players)
Hero ???
 
SubT33

SubT33

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Unless you have a good read, which you said you didn't, you fold TT preflop against a raise and a reraise. You have to figure one of those hands is like Ak or AQ and the other is probably JJ+ and in a 3 way battle you are a severe underdog. I would have checked on the flop, folded on turn.
 
S93

S93

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Unless you have a good read, which you said you didn't, you fold TT preflop against a raise and a reraise. You have to figure one of those hands is like Ak or AQ and the other is probably JJ+ and in a 3 way battle you are a severe underdog. I would have checked on the flop, folded on turn.
This
but since its a small raise and a small 3bet and your deep i dont mind set-mining here.
Flop is a Check/fold for me.....
 
T

Toad

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Unless you have a good read, which you said you didn't, you fold TT preflop against a raise and a reraise. You have to figure one of those hands is like Ak or AQ and the other is probably JJ+ and in a 3 way battle you are a severe underdog. I would have checked on the flop, folded on turn.


This didn't seem right to me so I ran it thorugh PokerStove....

...and you were exactly right. :) (I even loosened up the villians hand requirements and it still showed us as a major underdog)


I would have bet that flop...so thanks for helping me plug a major leak!



Board: 6h 2h 9d
Dead:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 23.634% 22.85% 00.78% 3291914 112548.00 { TT }
Hand 1: 38.183% 36.87% 01.31% 5311595 188502.00 { 88+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }
Hand 2: 38.183% 36.87% 01.31% 5311595 188502.00 { 88+, AJs+, KQs, AKo }
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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I'm not folding anything in sklansky group 2 to a min-3-bet playing 6-max getting set odds. Fold preflop is unthinkable, especially when you consider the button's stack size. Even if sub's hand range assignment is right (and its not), then we're still getting odds to call & see a flop. There's no single set of circumstances that can make me fold this. If they're both nits & they both have aces, I'm calling for set mining. If they're both spew-tards, then I'm calling to make an overpair/2nd pair, and stack them on favorable flops.

Play on the flop, bleh. These spots suck so much, and this thread looks just like one I posted earlier. Our hand has too much value to check/fold, its too vulnerable to check/call, and donking out makes our hand easy to read, gets calls from better and sometimes folds worse.

Against passives, I like donking the flop actually, looking to bet ~60% of the pot & keep things small. If they'll c-bet, then obviously its best to let them do so, and call/fold accordingly depending on how nitty they are/seem. While x/c sucks, the turn won't be terribly hard to play, since either an overcard will hit and we can just give up (well, maybe don't give up to a J), or we'll catch a realitive brick and be okay.

As played we only beat a bluff, and no one folds overpairs at 10NL, so checking is obviously best. I'd lean towards check/folding, since at 10NL I doubt villain has the stones to fire twice at this pot with air. Plus any bet will be almost a full stack, and we need to be at the top of our range here to call bets that are 100bb's.
 
Last edited:
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

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Can't really comment on all this without reads on villain, imo. 3betting ranges vary so much from villain to villain it's close to impossible to make generic comments.
 
Deltafrost

Deltafrost

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Heres how the river went.
** Dealing River ** [ 9c ]
DeltaFrost bets [$2.00 USD]
JABenson folds

reason here is i put villain on alot over overs that missed and i thought that with the idiots at 10nl might call A high. plan was bet/fold but i guess i should have check/folded?
 
V

viking999

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I'm doubtful that he'd call with A high, but I've seen crazier. I agree with checking the river, but I'm leaning towards check/call. Sometimes you'll see weird slowplays here, but I'm putting his range as mostly lower pocket pairs, straight/flush draws, or big overcards. Even a nine is very unlikely given the preflop aggression and passive play postflop, so I think that's a great river card. Low pocket pair justifies a bet, but all the others require a bluff to get paid off.
 
silverslugger33

silverslugger33

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You have to fold preflop here. However, now that you didn't, you may have gotten really unlucky on the river (if he has A9), really unlucky on the flop (if villain made a set), or you were beat the whole time (pocket pair over 10). So, now that you know you likely don't have the best hand (you still might), you have to determine a couple of things.

1. If you check and you somehow do have the best hand (i.e. the villain missed a draw), do you think they'll bluff? Since the player is unknown, it's hard to say, and if they sense that you're weak, it wouldn't be a bad spot for them.

2. If you check, how much are you willing to call? Even if you don't think that you have the best hand, given the right odds, your hand is still good enough for a call, as they could think they're value betting when they bet with 88 or thereabouts.

3. If you bet, how much are you willing to call if he goes over the top? If they had a hand like A9 (its very unlikely that they'd reraise here, but players do weird things), then they're raising here. Also, if they were slowplaying a set, they're raising here. However, they could also try to raise and steal with pot if they have some weird hand like 78 suited or pocket 8s, figuring that the river 9 could be a scare card (if they're read is that you aren't holding a 9 or a full house).

4. Are there any hands that you are losing to that would fold if you bet out on the river? This is the main thing you need to decide when decided if you want to bet or check. If you bet out about half the pot, do you think the villain will fold JJ-AA? If so, it could be a good spot for a bet This is up to you to figure out. I've seen much worse calls than someone calling with a paired board with JJ, but I've also seen much stranger folds than someone mucking AA here.

5. Will any hand that you have beat call if you bet? My guess is no. Now, if the answer to #4 is that someone with JJ-AA will fold, then betting is okay. If they answer to 4 is that they won't (and assuming you agree with me that no inferior hand will call your bet), then there is no way you should be.

My final analysis: Just check. If they want to make a huge bluff with 88, then you might bet bluffed off the best hand. However, if they make a small bet and give you 3-1 or better to call, I'd pay them to flip over their hand, as there are many players who are simply too scared to make a big bluff.
 
Deltafrost

Deltafrost

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Were geting set mine odds in a 3bet pot(aka massive implied odds),so why are we folding pre flop?

x2...im like never folding this preflop. even if both players are so nitty they ALWAYS have JJ+.


refer to c9's post above
 
Deltafrost

Deltafrost

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oh and viking i pretty much agree with you. should have gone c/c
 
SubT33

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I won't deny the implied odds are huge, considering the stack sizes of the villains, therefore I'll rescind my earlier suggestion of folding preflop. So let's consider a different flop scenario with our preflop call. What is the optimal board for our set mining endeavors? Obviously we need a T and would prefer something like T 4 2 rags. But what if the flop comes somethings like A K T? c9h, you said even if they do have JJ+, we still call because of the odds. Well now what do we do when they bet into us heavily on the flop?
 
ztw30

ztw30

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Sub T,
Obvious with a 10 2 4 board that is not suited you call and bet big on turn. At this level a check on the flop tells people your weak. on a A K 10 board unsuited or suited i have to bet big and re-push the only hand that beats you is AA KK jQ. that leaves to many possibilites that they could have. (this is my opinion.)
 
Deltafrost

Deltafrost

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I won't deny the implied odds are huge, considering the stack sizes of the villains, therefore I'll rescind my earlier suggestion of folding preflop. So let's consider a different flop scenario with our preflop call. What is the optimal board for our set mining endeavors? Obviously we need a T and would prefer something like T 4 2 rags. But what if the flop comes somethings like A K T? c9h, you said even if they do have JJ+, we still call because of the odds. Well now what do we do when they bet into us heavily on the flop?

on an AKT rainbow board you bet big and get it in, if they called with JQ they get paid off for a bad play. and set over set is sick, but standard.

set over set = money---->middle
 
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