100nl, QQ bvb battle vs unknown

No reads on villain. Our line? Should we be stacking in spots like these? Maybe taking a flop?

pokerstars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed)

MP1 ($20)
MP2 ($289.75)
MP3 ($91.50)
CO ($108.70)
Button ($114.05)
Hero ($100.50)
BB ($91.50)
UTG ($20)
UTG+1 ($99)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q , Q .
7 folds, Hero raises to $4, BB raises to $12, Hero ...

I call here and shove if no scare cards on the flop. AA, KK, and AK are the only three hand we are worried about in this situation. It is very possible that he is overly protecting his blind from what he considers a steal. If a scare card hits c-bet and reevaluate.

I think I would be fine stacking in this spot, although Ive never played at this high of a level. I think I repop this to about 30-35 and call a shove. He might think you are just trying to steal his blind he could be doing this with A10-AK, 88-AA, or even air. I think you are ahead of his range here.

I agree we're ahead of his range now by a longshot (tons of hands resteal vs CO/BTN/SB steals), but what part of his range calls a 4-bet or even comes over the top of a 4-bet?

ie if we 4-bet, do we have to call a 5-bet shove?

Not sure I would like calling a 5-bet shove here with QQ. The only hand we beat here is AK, I doubt his 5 bet range is wider that QQ+ AK. I hate these situations b/c I usually find they have a monster. Depending on stats of villain, I call 3 bet and evaluate flop or 4-bet and fold to a push.

ChuckTs said:

I agree we're ahead of his range now by a longshot (tons of hands resteal vs CO/BTN/SB steals), but what part of his range calls a 4-bet or even comes over the top of a 4-bet?

ie if we 4-bet, do we have to call a 5-bet shove?

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You have no reads on this villian, why aren't you respecting his reraise and call? It is possible that he is rerasing you for stealing but if you 4 bet and he then 5 bet shoves, is that a reasonable play for anything that doesn't have you beaten? This looks to my (admittedly unexperienced) eye to be a way ahead or way behind situation. Call and see the flop to decide.

Steveg1976 said:

You have no reads on this villian, why aren't you respecting his reraise and call?

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Not sure what you mean here steve. He's 3-bet me, and all I said was that his range for 3-betting there can be pretty wide. Readless I can't narrow his range down too far.

Steveg1976 said:

It is possible that he is rerasing you for stealing but if you 4 bet and he then 5 bet shoves, is that a reasonable play for anything that doesn't have you beaten?

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No, but people do all sorts of unreasonable things in poker He could be getting really aggressive with AQs or maybe even JJ. Again, readless I really don't know what type of range would do that, but even if we did get that far we might have to look him up since we'd probably be getting pretty good odds at that point.

Steveg1976 said:

This looks to my (admittedly unexperienced) eye to be a way ahead or way behind situation. Call and see the flop to decide.

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Well not exactly. AK and other high card hands might be involved here which means that we're frequently coinflipping or 70/30'ing as well. We also don't want to call and see a Kxx flop and have him bet us off our hand if he's got TT for example.

His range is huge. This re-raise means nothing. Depending on how he sees you, this could be any pair, any Ax or worse. His calling range is huge too with the scale of probability obv. tilted toward the higher end of the spectrum. Pairs > 99 (he tanks on the lower end) and AT or better. Lets throw KQ into the mix as well.

Anyway, I don't have Poker Stove installed on this laptop, but I don't think I need it. I'm laying it on the line pre-flop.

It's funny how position changes everything. If I were in EP or MP and reraised by LP, I probably just call. In both cases he has the same positional advantage over me, but in the case you presented, your raise could very easily be construed as a blind steal where-as in the second case you must assume your raise should garner some respect being from early position, therefore you in turn must give more respect to his reraise. What a complicated game.

Four Dogs said:

What a complicated game.

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I know and I love it!!!

So wait you say AT/KQ calls a 4-bet!? or do you mean vs the initial bet?

ChuckTs said:

Not sure what you mean here steve. He's 3-bet me, and all I said was that his range for 3-betting there can be pretty wide. Readless I can't narrow his range down too far. I think I got ahead of my self here. The three bet range is wide trying to protect his blind



No, but people do all sorts of unreasonable things in poker He could be getting really aggressive with AQs or maybe even JJ. Again, readless I really don't know what type of range would do that, but even if we did get that far we might have to look him up since we'd probably be getting pretty good odds at that point. without reads is it not better to give him credit for the cards and lose a smaller pot here than to get it all in the middle and lose to the bullets? People do unreasonable things yes, but without reads or something else to make us believe he is a maniac, that play only makes sense with AA's or KK's, to me anyway.



Well not exactly. AK and other high card hands might be involved here which means that we're frequently coinflipping or 70/30'ing as well. We also don't want to call and see a Kxx flop and have him bet us off our hand if he's got TT for example. as the bets are going up to a 4-5 bet his range is narrowing pretty quickly (to me) again without a read. Maybe this is a pissing contest for him with over cards but I would be more mad about getting it all in the middle and him stacking me off with the bullets than if he has overs and I shut it down early. I can adjust to my game by be pushed off a winner here than losing it all.

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Comments and thoughts above.

ChuckTs said:

I know and I love it!!!

So wait you say AT/KQ calls a 4-bet!? or do you mean vs the initial bet?

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This is obv. the lower frontiers of the calling range, but yeah, maybe. Your 4 bet screams high pair or AK, but there's a phenomanon I call desperate optimism. If he's got 99, he'll put you on AK, if he's got KQ, he'll put you on JJ. Nobody likes getting pushed around after they've shown strength, and IMO I think this will often get called by surprisingly weak hands or at least any hand with a fighting chance.

Yes, no, maybe?

Well I think it's possible, but we can't assume that.

For one, if he's a tag regular at 100nl (I'm not sure, again I have no reads) then he's shutting down to a 4-bet without JJ+ or at worst AKo. He'd probably even consider folding JJ/QQ.

Then there's the other end of the player skill spectrum - he could be all kinds of bad and could look us up extremely light here with that 'desperate optimism'. Maybe he's one of those bad players who calls with AJs or KQs, not sure.

That's the thing, vs an unknown he could be any of the above and I'm not sure how to proceed...