re: Poker & [100NL HU] Rivered Top 2 vs Minraise
Originally Posted by c9h13no3
Disclaimer: C9 doesn't believe in heads up hold'em, or Santa.
3-betting the river with a hand that's 2 hand classes away from the nuts (trips, straight) seems a bit thin. However, I shove this river because its not my money
Well good HU play is all about thin value. I've value shoved > 100bbs more with top 2 overtop of a pot sized river donk even tho an OESD (and villain had also donked flop) got there on the river...more of villain's hands were weighted towards hands that wouldn't find a fold but that i still beat. Some players you can almost stack off with second pair they will call you so lightly due to image etc. HU is all about out leveling your opponent. It is the reason crazy lags can do so well at HU--they can value bet so thin. Instead of polarising ranges to monsters/bluffs, good LAGS can like value shove rivers with 2nd pair vs some villain's because their hand looks so much like a bluff that villain levels himself into a call with teh whole "polarized range...either monster or bluffs and there are more bluffs out there".
Course this is besides the point with no reads, but if villain plays a monster this badly then he is likely they'll show up with alot of random crap imo.
I might min 3-bet this guy. If he has a set or straight he kinda played it weird and missed some value, so oh well. But HU, top 2 is a pretty strong hand and I'd want to get as much money as I could squeeze out of it.
I think there are a ton of other combo's that call your min raise, other 2-pairs, Qx, mid-pairs like 99's and 10's might do this and more possible are KK's and AA's which definitely played it a little differently than most would.
Not sure about a shove, whether or not he only calls with hands that beat you is hard to tell only a few hands in.
I figure min-bet you get a lot more call's out of hands that were just kind of weak holdings or close to bluffs and if he 4-bets you really large you can possibly get away, although I'm not sure I have the power to fold this....
qx/99/tt etc don't play like this and villain isn't min raising river then folding 2 pair or something to a shove. Making a small 3 bet is pointless because you are either ahead or behind of villain's range. If you are ahead then go for max value because villain really isn't folding much to a shove here and if you are behind then you flat call. Making a small 3B then folding to a 4B shove just loses us value from villain's good, but weaker hands, and we are spewing off money when folding to a 4B (if villain's range is weighted towards monsters) by not flat calling (ie. we are trying to extract min value from the small portion of villain's range that we beat and spewing off money vs the rest of his range) and potentially folding the best hand if villain can value shove 2 pair here (which we can't know without reads). That is like no man's land line and doesn't really make any sense vs any range villain could have unless villain is raising river very lightly and will only pay off a min 3B with his trash (which would just make no sense given his line...do you actually think villain is checking back TT here then min raising the river when there are now 2 overcards and calling a 3B?).