$1000 NLHE Full Ring: 10s against LAG pushing table around

BLINDS 5/10
READS : UTG +2 is TAG Reg at a casino I play. BTN is LAG who has been pushing the table around and has won some nice pots.
We have been on this table for about an hour and have played TAG.

STACKS UTG+2 $1200
HERO $1800
BTN $2500

ACTION : UTG +2 raises to $30, hero calls $30, BTN raises to $100, UTG +2 calls , Hero Calls.
FLOP: 4h6d7s
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks , BTN bets $350 , UTG folds , HERO folds.

What was your plan going in? Were you just going to set-mine your TT? Did you plan on isolating the BTN? If so why didn't you?

Jillychemung said:

What was your plan going in? Were you just going to set-mine your TT? Did you plan on isolating the BTN? If so why didn't you?

Click to expand...

Yea set mining this the opponents stacks are big , we are getting nice pot odds to call and BTN is agro and he might have a big hand in witch case likely to pay us off.

I can see BTN raising this with KQ, AJs, AQ+, JJ+ in witch case its preety close , so not too shore what to do post but even thought hes so agro probably not worth getting it in , and a call on the flop would leave us pot committed right?
UTG is preety tight so not shore if we are beating his range to isolate although he did show some weakness by flatting BTNs 3bet , but still could have AK, JJ+ , so not too shore if isolating good here and ofcorse BTN could have woken up with AA, KK also.

OK you label the BTN LAG yet give him a TAGish range, so has BTN just been on a heater or has he been loose?

UTG+2 flat here makes me want to iso the BTN more with the additional dead money.

Any read on what the BTNs PSB+ flop bet sizing indicated?

Jillychemung said:

OK you label the BTN LAG yet give him a TAGish range, so has BTN just been on a heater or has he been loose?

UTG+2 flat here makes me want to iso the BTN more with the additional dead money.

Any read on what the BTNs PSB+ flop bet sizing indicated?

Click to expand...

I give BTN a TAGish range because of the situation , if hes observant (witch I think he is ) he has noticed that a TAG player is opening in early position and another TAG in MD position flats him, so I presume hes not 3betting light here.
Unless hes confident of two players folding.?


Villain has punished limpers a lot and tends to bet big on the flop, has shown down a couple of times only and has had the goods , one of the times he stacked a fish with 53s.
We can ISO the BTN but have no idea of how BTN will react and if we calls we will be playing 10s OOP and they don't play all that well especially against a LAG
Could be wrong but just felt that set mining this would have been better because we cannot presume (IMO) that we have the best hand here , and keeping the UTG in would give us better implied odds if we hit a set.
Also if we set mine we can win a really big pot but if we play the hand for face value we 4bet BTN and either get a fold or get 5bet and have to fold ?

Its good you can explain why you called because it is important to have that alreay decided in your mind before you put your chips in. I think a big factor is also the frequency of the LAGs 3bets. Did he 3bet often while you were at the table or was this the first time? If I had seen him doing squeezes frequently or something I probably would've approached the hand differently, but without that information I think you played the hand well.

He has 3b a few times, Im guessing his 3b% would be around 8%.
We have been at the table only an hour or so, and have not seen any 3b showdowns.
Few hands back the fellow next to me 3b villain and folded to villains big 4bet and said " do you know what I just folded QQ. I think Im shipping it there.
So villain is quite agro, another reason why set mining might be better, but still not shore what to do on the flop we might still be good.

I never played so high bets, especially not against LAG. But from my low stakes point of view both approaches are possible:
- for set-mining you need like 15x your bet, to have profit. So you need him to fire 2 barrels if you flop the set, which is quite possible for LAG.
- but I still think 4bet is better here. Even with risk of 5bet.

bnasp2 said:

I never played so high bets, especially not against LAG. But from my low stakes point of view both approaches are possible:
- for set-mining you need like 15x your bet, to have profit. So you need him to fire 2 barrels if you flop the set, which is quite possible for LAG.
- but I still think 4bet is better here. Even with risk of 5bet.

Click to expand...

Why do you think 4bet is better ? explain

This looks fine as played.
We've odds to set mine pre, 4betting would be turning our hand in to a bluff and would be horrendous this deep imo.

I like the fold on the flop as villains 3betting range could well be very nitty here seeing as he 3bet an early position open. With position or vs a half pot bet I'd be happy to call, but out of position facing a pot bet 3way I think we're fine to fold.

u say that that guy is pushing players around, he have the position on both of u, and still 3bet u, that means he have AK, QQ+ or nothing hand, as u said thats he is a bully a will 4bet him to get more infos.

Bet the flop for $200.

How many people are at this table? 4?

When I'm deep, and especially at live games, my 3-bet and squeeze range gets even wider than it is online. If he's a decent LAG at all, his should as well.

This hand sucks because he pretty much knows what your range is, so he has complete control of the hand. You say you're looking to set mine, but would either of these guys pay at a decent rate? Have you been playing predictably? Not sure I like the pre-flop plan or the post flop plan at all. Looks to me like you were burning money on this hand.

Deco said:

This looks fine as played.
We've odds to set mine pre, 4betting would be turning our hand in to a bluff and would be horrendous this deep imo.

I like the fold on the flop as villains 3betting range could well be very nitty here seeing as he 3bet an early position open. With position or vs a half pot bet I'd be happy to call, but out of position facing a pot bet 3way I think we're fine to fold.

Click to expand...

I really agree with this post. 4 betting puts you in a very awkward spot, especially if you get flatted or 5 bet. You can never go wrong set mining here and seeing how the action plays post flop. If he is the type to play flops this aggressively, while also getting his stack in and showing a range much wider than "the goods", I think calling or check raising the flop are options.

These stakes are way higher than what I play... But why aren't we 3 betting pre? If we r planning on folding to a bet on a reasonably dry board with no overs... Why are we even in the hand in the first place? I feel like the line has some flaws in its logic. That's one of the best flops we can hold for with 10 10, so if we are going to call 100 dollars pre u shouldn't be folding to a pretty dry flop. Just my opinion. Also IMO 4 betting the button is a bad bad play. If he flats and the flop is ugly we r OOP and that's not a fun situation. If he 5 bets us we pretty much need to fold, so I think flatting the buttons re raise is fine as played.... But I think I'm probably 3 betting to 80-90 dollars pre.

I think 3betting preflop is an option. However, many players treat 1010 the same as a smaller pair due to it's vulnerability in 3bet pots. Also, isolating a UTG open with 1010 can very frequently lead to value owning yourself against a UTG opening range on later streets. JJ, QQ, and KK will frequently just call 3bets (not 4bet) after opening UTG.

I don't like check folding the flop here. Flat pre may be ok but I don't love that either. The way it was played how many times can you really continue on a flop? Pretty much just a flop with a 10. I don't love turning a hand with that much show down value against a random LAG 3b range into a set mine which winds up folding a ton. I just think something more needs to be done to find out a bit more about the strength of the villains hand.

If we 4bet and we hit a 10... and an A or a K is on the board, i'm sure we could get value from this John? I find people tend to find it harder to fold

I don't think the villain was classified as a type of player to pot flops and not have anything. One of the posts suggests that whenever he put a significant amount of chips in the pot and went to showdown he had "the goods". Other hh from the villain would be very useful.

John A said:

How many people are at this table? 4?

When I'm deep, and especially at live games, my 3-bet and squeeze range gets even wider than it is online. If he's a decent LAG at all, his should as well.

This hand sucks because he pretty much knows what your range is, so he has complete control of the hand. You say you're looking to set mine, but would either of these guys pay at a decent rate? Have you been playing predictably? Not sure I like the pre-flop plan or the post flop plan at all. Looks to me like you were burning money on this hand.

Click to expand...

Its a full table cant remember exactly 8 or 9 players.
If flop comes A 10 7 , and either player in the hand has AK, AQ, 10 10 im shore we are getting paid off here, the reason I check flop (not shore if right or wrong) is because I planned pre to set mine and though 33 10s are of equal value preety much . But

I kind of like Baudib suggestion to bet 200 on the flop since we got a preety good flop for our hand. But not consistent with pre flop plan?

We cant fold pre and since UTG who is a TAG raised and then called a 3 bet we can assume he has a preety tight range ( I would say AQs AK 88+) witch is slightly ahead of us , this and with villains still to act , might be too late for a squeeze , so is set mining our only option now ?

I don't think im playing predictable as I would 3bet 10s here a good % of the time. And are capable of doing it with 78s occasionally.

But yea after flatting the second time we are preety much face up and it kind of sucks.