€100 NLHE Full Ring: JTs Cbet on dynamic dry board, thoughts?

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nevy

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Player from EP Raise 7
HERO Call with JsTs
VILLAIN Call
FLOP comes QhJd4h
VILLAIN Check
HERO Bets 15
VILLAIN Call
EP raiser Folds
TURN 9h
VILLAIN Check
HERO Bet 30
VILLAIN Call
RIVER Qd
VILLAIN Bet 40
HERO Fold
 
F

fundiver199

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Facing a large open raise from early position a suited connector type hand is just a fold. On the flop I dont see much point in betting with second pair. Maybe they call with some draws, but made hands are playing literally 100% perfect with every better hand calling and every worse hand folding, and your hand is to bad to warrant protection.

On the turn most of his draws got there, and you are clearly bluffing now, but I dont think, this is a good spot. He is probably not folding a Q to a single barrel, and trying to get someone off top pair in a soft game is typically a great way to set money on fire. On the river its fine to give up. The way, he played his hand, he probably has at least trips, and even if there was money behind, I dont think, he is folding to a raise.
 
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kkonicke

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I tend to disagree with above poster, I'd fold many suited connectors but J 10 is a reasonable call for me in that spot. I do agree I think I'm checking flop. Considering the flop bet, I'm definitely checking turn. Again, all draws got there...and that bet only makes sense if you have something like KQ with the K of hearts. But even then...a check is probably better.

I have mixed feelings on whether you have the best hand here. Usually a river donk-bet after you barreled twice is a missed draw or a monster. It's hard to believe a flush or straight in this spot after you barreled twice and the board pairs(Q9, QJ, and 44 are all in your range along with flushes). It's hard to believe he would check AQ, KQ or a set on the flop as the board is just a bit too connected for that...lots of bad turns. Specific hands that make the most sense to me are AK one heart and QJ. Obviously you beat one and get destroyed by the other.
 
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fundiver199

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It's hard to believe he would check AQ, KQ or a set on the flop as the board is just a bit too connected for that.

Its pretty typical to check your entire range to the preflop aggressor and even more so in this configuration, where there is yet another player left to act behind. If he flopped something really strong, this would be a perfect spot for him to check-raise. He check, preflop aggressor put in the C-bet, hero call in position, and BOOM there he is with a big check-raise.

I would expect QJ, 44 and good flushdraws to play like this a lot of the time, so the fact, he just check-called, makes it somewhat unlikely, he have one of those monsters. But not impossible of course. This is a low stakes cash games, and in these many players are a bit on the passive side.

I honestly dont really know, what bluffs to put him on here, since there are no logical missed draws. Is he turning T9 into a bluff, because he dont think, it has enough showdown value? Thats kind of advanced, and if so when why not also AJ with the A of hearts. In that case we even lose to some of his bluffs. Maybe he can have trips. I can certainly see a bad player go "LOL I just made 3 of a kind, so I bet". It makes no sense, but if he is bad, he is bad :D

At the end of the day we are sitting here with a hand, that already build to large a pot. Its difficult to figure out, what is going on, and we are at the rock bottom end of our range. Maybe we can have T9s as a worse hand, but thats about it. So I think, its fine to just let this one go.
 
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kkonicke

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Its pretty typical to check your entire range to the preflop aggressor and even more so in this configuration, where there is yet another player left to act behind. If he flopped something really strong, this would be a perfect spot for him to check-raise. He check, preflop aggressor put in the C-bet, hero call in position, and BOOM there he is with a big check-raise.

At the end of the day we are sitting here with a hand, that already build to large a pot. Its difficult to figure out, what is going on, and we are at the rock bottom end of our range. Maybe we can have T9s as a worse hand, but thats about it. So I think, its fine to just let this one go.


I just realized looking again the it was 3 way to the flop. I thought he was only dealing with EP raiser. So I read this completely wrong above and tend to agree with you(fundiver) a lot more. I still don't hate playing the hand, but it makes the postflop bet even worse...and in my opinion the biggest mistake in the hand. And considering this guy is 3rd in on the flop, his range is super wide and could have stuff like 10 8, K 10, flushes as low as 10 high, etc. He probably has a few more bluffs like A 10 and 10 9. Still, that preflop bet started building a big pot for missed draws to bluff at on the river...putting you in a really tough spot with such a mediocre holding. I think you might have a chance at showdown if the pot is kept small, making it less adventageous for missed draws to bluff at.
 
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quant1986

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First I assume you are playing live game as 7x open is not typical online.
Preflop unless you are playing 200BB+ , I think you should only call this hand from CO (if multiple callers) and BTN/BB. JTs is a good hand with high playability but facing 7x open at 100BB effective, I find its values goes down significantly.

Also it is better to add more precise descriptions regarding positions, stack size to help others analyse your hands.
 
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