$100 NLHE Full Ring: Bottom 2 4 Way (yay FR)

Jurn8

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Pretty much an unknown, I'm new at the site so I'm unknown to him if he is a reg.

Sounds uber nitty but I just cannot see him ever bluffing here given its 4 way and unknown.

Cake Poker, $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 9 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

UTG+1: $57.25 (57.3 bb)
UTG+2: $96.50 (96.5 bb)
MP1: $167.68 (167.7 bb)
MP2: $112.82 (112.8 bb)
MP3: $85.50 (85.5 bb)
CO: $98.70 (98.7 bb)
Hero (BTN): $124.65 (124.7 bb)
SB: $103.14 (103.1 bb)
BB: $124.60 (124.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with 9
heart4.gif
8
heart4.gif

3 folds, MP2 raises to $3, MP3 folds, CO calls $3, Hero calls $3, SB calls $2.50, BB folds

Flop: ($13) 9
spade4.gif
T
club4.gif
8
diamond4.gif
(4 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, CO checks, Hero bets $8, SB raises to $22.50, MP2 folds, CO folds, Hero loves FR??
 
JOEBOB69

JOEBOB69

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Feels like a fold.
sets,JQ,67,89,910,and maybe 10J,9J
 
hackmeplz

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Fairly easy fold. It's a fold at 6max too.
 
Jurn8

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I would say this would be an extremely rare spot on 6max lol

Also not sure how I feel about squeezing pre, if I had anymore info on MP2 then I prefer it think
 
Cafeman

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It's a clear fold no? We're beating Air(like KQ)/ATs/JJ, although ATs is massively over-representing his hand here. We don't beat much, so without a read I would fold and don't consider that uber nitty at all, cos even with his 'air' he could bink if you call, and you certainly can't raise the flop without turning your hand into a bluff of sorts.

As for squeezing pre, why not throw one in, but that would be more a game dynamic thing, like if you haven't 3bet/squeezered much yet.
 
Jurn8

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It's a clear fold no? We're beating Air(like KQ)/ATs/JJ, although ATs is massively over-representing his hand here. We don't beat much, so without a read I would fold and don't consider that uber nitty at all, cos even with his 'air' he could bink if you call, and you certainly can't raise the flop without turning your hand into a bluff of sorts.

As for squeezing pre, why not throw one in, but that would be more a game dynamic thing, like if you haven't 3bet/squeezered much yet.

yeah im pretty sure its a clear fold, be interesting spot if it was HU.
 
dj11

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I don't fold this, but then I am the fish....
Very likely I would have checked rather than bet, allowing a free card to my impending boat. The 4 way pot causes me more angst than the possible combos out there. But the table gave me a chance to see what comes next, and damn it, I wanted to see that next card.

So your bet was a mistake ...IMHO
 
John A

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I don't fold this, but then I am the fish....
Very likely I would have checked rather than bet, allowing a free card to my impending boat. The 4 way pot causes me more angst than the possible combos out there. But the table gave me a chance to see what comes next, and damn it, I wanted to see that next card.

So your bet was a mistake ...IMHO

I'm going to assume you're leveling us.

But yes, pretty easy fold really.
 
dj11

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I'm going to assume you're leveling us.

But yes, pretty easy fold really.

No level, I don't give sb a chance to repop me if I don't pop first.

I am the fish with balls.
 
John A

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No level, I don't give sb a chance to repop me if I don't pop first.

I am the fish with balls.

Ya, don't check this multi-way. It's the perfect spot to get value from a lot of hands that will connect second best and at the same time people are more likely to call with combo draws then raise in these spots multi-way.

What you're saying sounds really results oriented honestly.
 
dj11

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Ya, don't check this multi-way. It's the perfect spot to get value from a lot of hands that will connect second best and at the same time people are more likely to call with combo draws then raise in these spots multi-way.

What you're saying sounds really results oriented honestly.

True, the results I like being in this case I have potential, . I do not want to lose money here, I could easily be good here, but there is enuf danger in that flop to tread lightly.

When it looks like a trap, and smells trappable...don't step in the trap.

I recognize that each of the villains checked first option. And it is almost impossible to miss a flop like that if you were willing to enter. This hand has great value if checked or even checked down, unlikely that will happen tho, right. So a free card can not hurt, and the bet did hurt by giving villain the opportunity to do what he did.

While I appreciate that results oriented comment, this is not a spot to be digging out the EV charts, or breaking out histories (none as presented), we have a 2 pr hand to a wet board, very wet actually, so checking and refusing to offer villain that c/r opportunity seems perfectly sane to me.

You all want huge pots when several small pots gets you the same place.

But, you're the coach...convince me
 
WVHillbilly

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I don't know if it results oriented as much as it is just poor thinking. So much value to be had by betting here. Checking would really be pretty horrid.
 
dj11

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I don't know if it results oriented as much as it is just poor thinking. So much value to be had by betting here. Checking would really be pretty horrid.

However, the first several replies by players who tend to get respect were all tilting toward folding 'as played', I offered a different 'as played'. So my comments are actually irrelevant to the hand as posted.

Under this scenario, 4 way, and a wet flop and I sorta fit the wet flop, there are many ways to proceed, I offered one that is a bit safer......
 
hackmeplz

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It's also safer to limp TT preflop so we don't get 3b and cold 4b and have to fold. It's still ****ing horrendous though and you're giving up so much value by not raising it.
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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However, the first several replies by players who tend to get respect were all tilting toward folding 'as played', I offered a different 'as played'. So my comments are actually irrelevant to the hand as posted.

Under this scenario, 4 way, and a wet flop and I sorta fit the wet flop, there are many ways to proceed, I offered one that is a bit safer......

the definition of missed value..

checking back on this board is a crime tbh.
 
John A

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True, the results I like being in this case I have potential, . I do not want to lose money here, I could easily be good here, but there is enuf danger in that flop to tread lightly.

When it looks like a trap, and smells trappable...don't step in the trap.

I recognize that each of the villains checked first option. And it is almost impossible to miss a flop like that if you were willing to enter. This hand has great value if checked or even checked down, unlikely that will happen tho, right. So a free card can not hurt, and the bet did hurt by giving villain the opportunity to do what he did.

While I appreciate that results oriented comment, this is not a spot to be digging out the EV charts, or breaking out histories (none as presented), we have a 2 pr hand to a wet board, very wet actually, so checking and refusing to offer villain that c/r opportunity seems perfectly sane to me.

You all want huge pots when several small pots gets you the same place.

But, you're the coach...convince me

I'm a fan of reverse psychology, so I'll go along, but I only have a minute and then I'm out the door.

You bet because even your opponents calling range you're going to have ~50% equity. Their raising range will almost all be for value, so you can get away from your hand cheaper. EX: You check flop. Turn comes and King. Opponent bets into you and you call the turn. River comes a 2. They bet again, you call, and they flip over T9o. Now you called two bets that would have likely been more than your flop bet versus you betting the flop, getting raised and dumping your hand. True, you can fill up, but you have some reverse implied odds here too.

Now if you bet the flop, not only do you protect your equity (which is important in a spot like this), you're getting equal value range of hands to call AND you have position. Your overall equity versus all of your opponents ranges is better than 50% though (when matched up individually). You win money at poker by betting when you have an equity advantage over your opponents. It's really that simple.
 
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