$100 NLHE Full Ring: AQo Squeeze gets flatted then makes TPTK

WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
$100 NL HE Full Ring: AQo Squeeze gets flatted then makes TPTK

Villian Stats (VPIP/PFR/AF): 15/13/5

Villain's fold to 3bet is 85% the cold caller between us is a 64/4/1 guy and the reason for being at the table. I was completely shocked when he didn't come along here.

full tilt poker $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players - View hand 524287
The Official DeucesCracked.com Hand History Converter

Hero (CO): $121.00
BTN: $30.50
SB: $105.10
BB: $100.00
UTG: $100.00
UTG+1: $53.50
UTG+2: $144.80
MP1: $134.15
MP2: $120.60

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is CO with A :diamond: Q :spade:
3 folds, MP1 raises to $3, MP2 calls $3, Hero raises to $13, 2 folds, BB requests TIME, 1 fold, MP1 calls $10, 1 fold

Flop: ($30.50) 2 :heart: 4 :heart: Q :club: (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero ???

Cbet? If so how much and are you willing to get it in?

Also what do you think of the 3bet?
 
thepokerkid123

thepokerkid123

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 31, 2009
Total posts
917
Chips
0
I like the 3bet squeeze.

Cbet $20 and get it in if he check raises, if he just calls shove any turn.

MP isn't going to give you credit for the Q very often, and I think pocket pairs will come along. The only hands I really expect action from are pocket pairs and big draws and the occasional set.
 
M

Marginal

Junior Member
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 28, 2009
Total posts
10,426
Awards
3
Chips
2
I like the 3 bet, most of the time you are going to get the original raiser to fold and the fish to call and even if called, you have position.

MP is obviously going to call a little lighter in anticipation of the fish calling, he also probably flats some big hands just to get the fish more involved. You do have his range beat but I fear that he only calls a cbet here with hands that have you beat. It just seems wa/wb to me. I probably just check back and give villain a chance to bluff.

Obviously there is nothing wrong with a cbet and it is most likely the default line here but I just check back here.
 
W

WiZZiM

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Total posts
5,008
Chips
0
I like the 3 bet, most of the time you are going to get the original raiser to fold and the fish to call and even if called, you have position.

MP is obviously going to call a little lighter in anticipation of the fish calling, he also probably flats some big hands just to get the fish more involved. You do have his range beat but I fear that he only calls a cbet here with hands that have you beat. It just seems wa/wb to me. I probably just check back and give villain a chance to bluff.

Obviously there is nothing wrong with a cbet and it is most likely the default line here but I just check back here.

agreed, i check back and turn my hand into a bluff catcher, not many cards that can really scare you on the turn.. it isnt a pot id want to play for all my chips for... obv bet the turn for value if he checks again.. he may pay you off one street with a hand like 10 10 or something..
 
KardKlub

KardKlub

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Total posts
527
Chips
0
AQ in a 3 bet pot hitting top pair on a relatively dry board imo is a value bet. The way i play i need to include this in my value range to help off set my bluffs on these dry boards.

If you would bluff c-bet this then you need to value 3- bet it.

1/2 pot will get worse pkt pairs to call and drawing hands and leave you enough room to fold if his play becomes actively aggressive.

another 1/2 pot on the turn will leave stacks perfect for a river push, which hopefully he will feel pot commited with worse.

or pot flop, shove river.

KK AA flat oop pre? 90% no 10% yes (average)
 
slycbnew

slycbnew

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 8, 2008
Total posts
2,876
Chips
0
I don't think we can expect to get called by worse hands frequently from a 15/13/5? I seriously doubt he's going to call w any hand, better or worse, on this flop oop - he's either folding or c/r'ing imo.

I also think the majority of his c/r range is better than TPTK.

I don't disagree that AA/KK isn't the majority of his range, but I'm not sure what value betting here accomplishes if worse hands aren't calling - we'll take down the pot a heckuva lot, and we protect against AK hitting a 3outer, but...
 
O

orangepeeleo

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Total posts
3,148
Chips
0
Haven't read any of the replies here so sorry if this has already been said.

I don't mind the squeeze pf at all, specially with such a fish inbetween us and the villains fold to 3bet being so high, he seems sensible enough so you'd fold out a lot of PP's that have a decent amount of equity vs AQ. When he flats though i think that KK+ can't be taken out of his range as he'd maybe flat there to milk some more out of the fish

On the flop i'm not sure if this is WA/WB, hopefully someones said something about this in the other replies, i don't think it is as he's either got AK or a PP imo, which your obv ahead of, all your WB is KK+ which i presume would have 4bet PF, but my thinking is that i'd cbet about $20 both for value against AK and PP's from like 99-JJ that would peel one here and for protection against the FD, i dunno about getting it in on the flop though if he c/r's, thats a tough one.

I cbet here, then barrel any blank turn and check back a K, may be crap analysis but its a tough spot for me.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Total posts
5,799
Awards
1
Chips
1
Against almost any reg that I'm playing, I'm cbetting this 100% of the time with the intention of calling a shove. Even seemingly nitty regs such as this one. If (when) he checkraises, his most common holding will be a flushdraw. He'll checkraise QQ+ some of the time too, but there are only 10 - ignoring 22 and 44 - combos of those (and some of that will be slowplayed further, discounting it somewhat) but bluffs/flushdraws + dead money will make up for when that happens.

I also don't really like checking back because contrary to what most others are saying, I think he WILL call with worse pretty often. Mid PPs, KQ/QJs come to mind. The money we save in protecting our stack against the 10 combos that beat us is a lot less compared to the money we could be making from 88+ and flushdraws that check/shove. I don't know if he auto-4bets AK, but I've seen regs peel a bet even with that in a spot like this - even OOP.

Our betsize on the flop isn't altogether too important because he'll check/raise and check/call the same ranges almost regardless of what we bet as long as we're in the interval of halfpot-to-3/4ths-pot. I also don't really vary my cbet size much in 3bet pots. My standard bet size would be $21 in this spot.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Total posts
22,973
Chips
0
Against almost any reg that I'm playing, I'm cbetting this 100% of the time with the intention of calling a shove. Even seemingly nitty regs such as this one. If (when) he checkraises, his most common holding will be a flushdraw. He'll checkraise QQ+ some of the time too, but there are only 10 - ignoring 22 and 44 - combos of those (and some of that will be slowplayed further, discounting it somewhat) but bluffs/flushdraws + dead money will make up for when that happens.

I also don't really like checking back because contrary to what most others are saying, I think he WILL call with worse pretty often. Mid PPs, KQ/QJs come to mind. The money we save in protecting our stack against the 10 combos that beat us is a lot less compared to the money we could be making from 88+ and flushdraws that check/shove. I don't know if he auto-4bets AK, but I've seen regs peel a bet even with that in a spot like this - even OOP.

Our betsize on the flop isn't altogether too important because he'll check/raise and check/call the same ranges almost regardless of what we bet as long as we're in the interval of halfpot-to-3/4ths-pot. I also don't really vary my cbet size much in 3bet pots. My standard bet size would be $21 in this spot.

15/13 is not really nitty at FR.

Also I'd love the hear your thoughts on my play preflop with the fish in the hand. Do you think 3betting and hoping the fish comes along is better than cold calling and guaranteeing myself a pot in position against the fish? I mean I thought he would call the 3bet but I've seen varying opinions about 3betting/not 3betting to keep bad players in pots and I'm just wondering where you come down in that discussion.
 
Z

Zybomb

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Total posts
372
Chips
0
Standard 3bet pre. You shouldn't be worried about losing the fish, as they often want to see flops/ overvalue hands and will make bad calls preflop.

On the flop bet and be willing to call a shove. About 2/3rds pot will do or whatever your standard flop bet in a 3bet pot is, if it's different. Yea AA might flat the 3 bet pre once in a while but it's not likely... and KK is even less likely since it probably doesn't want to take a 3 way flop and let Ax get there (he can't expect the fish to fold). In addition villain can c/r flush draws, and call down with KQ or random PPs (putting you on AK). Villain may even spaz out with worse, putting you on a steal trying to isolate the bad player

Finally we simply have to bet for meta purposes. While once in a while we may be checking back JJ or something, for the most part we're CBetting this flop after w e3 bet pre with the vast majority of our range, so to not include AQ here would be a mistake.
 
F Paulsson

F Paulsson

euro love
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 24, 2005
Total posts
5,799
Awards
1
Chips
1
15/13 is not really nitty at FR.
Good point.

Also I'd love the hear your thoughts on my play preflop with the fish in the hand. Do you think 3betting and hoping the fish comes along is better than cold calling and guaranteeing myself a pot in position against the fish? I mean I thought he would call the 3bet but I've seen varying opinions about 3betting/not 3betting to keep bad players in pots and I'm just wondering where you come down in that discussion.

Ah, I guess I didn't comment on that - sorry. Well, I like raising. Had the fish folded, I'd be flatting always but with the fish in, you have a lot more value in raising here. Not just from the fish, but from the fact that villain's calling range opens up quite a bit more (on average) adding stuff like medium PPs (although going down to 44 is debatable) and probably quite a few other speculative hands. Had it been just you and villain, raising wouldn't have been a very good option because you just don't get a lot of value from it; he's folding worse and continuing with better. Keeping his range wider by flatting and thereby getting to see a flop versus more of his dominated hands is obviously good (but you probably knew this already). But with the fish (probably) in, I think his range will open up enough to include hands that you can definitely value raise against, and if he's peeling a flop with a speculative hand because the fish is in, a cbet will often win it uncontested.
 
Top