$100 NLHE 6-max: tripling fish

acky100

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just played this vs unknown, no hands played but im sure he's a fish (1 tabling or summet)
 
acky100

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forgot to post hand when playing lol, got some opinions on it already now but ill post anyways to hear thoughts

poker stars $0.50/$1 No Limit Hold'em - 3 players - View hand 2026305
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BTN: $103.82
SB: $100.50
Hero (BB): $100.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero is BB with T :spade: A :club:
BTN raises to $3, 1 fold, Hero raises to $10, BTN calls $7

Flop: ($20.50) Q :spade: 5 :club: 6 :spade: (2 players)
Hero bets $10, BTN calls $10

Turn: ($40.50) K :heart: (2 players)
Hero bets $17, BTN calls $17

River: ($74.50) 9 :diamond: (2 players)
Hero bets $63 all in
 
Ducky7

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Dont like it, dont think we get much to fold, if the fish has a Q, 3 handed i doubt hes folding it here ever, river isnt a brilliant barreling card as it allows a few draws to get there as well
 
Beanfacekilla

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I don't know how to put this, so I will just say it. No disrespect intended.

Seems kinda spewey. Yes I understand you were 3-handed. Then you bet the whole way, OOP, with nothing (ace high of course). If you took it down with nothing, kudos. However, I sincerely doubt you won the pot. Something tells me he called you light, and that is why this post is here.

I would have played it differently. Check/raise the flop perhaps, to see where you are. This is just a suggestion.

Nothing but my $0.02 here.
 
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OMGITSOVER9K

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c/r flop to see where you are is bad..

you pay more to find out you're behind than just firing the flop as PFR.

Arran, what would you say if I posted this hand to you?

he can have busted draws here but you beat those, Kx/Qx prob doesn't fold you only really get him to fold 98 etc/gutters on flop that paired the river.

as current attempting king of spewing rivers I think this is a check.. ]

what do you think your value range looks like here?
 
Beanfacekilla

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I would take your advice a teeny bit more seriously if you werent playing 0.01/0.02 and could read!


I don't play $0.01/$0.02. I play live $1/$2

Btn. raises, you reraise. Flop comes, you have nothing. You bet about half pot, get called.

Turn- you still have nothing, bet a little less than half pot. Get called.

River- you still have nothing. You shove for almost the pot.

Is this what happened? I cant read, so I dont know.
You ask for input. Well here it is: you spewed away your whole stack with ace high.

If I have missed something, please let me know, and I will be happy to retract/apologize.
 
youregoodmate

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I probably barrel turn and give up on the river.

Your range is so thin, AK and QQ+ or air.

edit: forgot KQ as well
 
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c9h13no3

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I assume you're 3-betting here to exploit the fact that your opponent doesn't like to give up with marginal hands.

I assume you're 3-barreling because you believe you can get your opponent to fold marginal hands.

One of these assumptions is wrong. Fish typically raise tight, and are sticky postflop in 3-bet pots. So with no reads, both preflop & the river might be bad.

I'd rather bet the turn once & larger than to plan on barreling both streets as well. Your small turn bet kinda traps you into the river shove.

Just because the board was right for the move doesn't mean the targeted player is a good one. And this is another example where you're 3-betting hands with "blockers" that don't play well in 3-bet pots, and you get put in goofy spots like these when your opponent calls.
 
acky100

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fwiw haydn i figured he would fold a Qx hand on the river less i would never of played the hand like this.

long story short its definitely not pure spew or even close, i asked a coach and was told it was probably fine, im grinding atm will say more later
 
Ducky7

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fwiw haydn i figured he would fold a Qx hand on the river less i would never of played the hand like this.

long story short its definitely not pure spew or even close, i asked a coach and was told it was probably fine, im grinding atm will say more later

Its terrible.... hes never folding Qx :s
 
OMGITSOVER9K

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nah its not terrible, but I agree with c9 (omg) that the small turn bet traps you into the shove, but stacks are kinda awkward if bet the turn normal and I know Arran likes the small turn bet shove river line as he's suggested it before..

its not terrible, I just think its a spot where better doesnt fold often enough?

but hey, i'm bad.
 
acky100

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I actually sized the turn up on purpose to shove all rivers

Coaches summary was basically that the 3bet isnt terrible but sketchy (as in we'd probably feel happy 3bet AJo a lot here and you can 3bet ATo too but probably just flatting it a lot more is generally better for now) (i was 3betting for value with ATo btw C9, i think i can 3bet fish with almost ATC and print money from a cbet a lot of the time)

When the K came i thought i could make him fold over 50% of his range on the river, hence why i set up a pot sized shove exactly as i would with a value hand (although who cares about balance vs fish)

I'm gonna play with this in flopzilla/pokerstove and see if probably folds half his range but yeah, i would probably flat pre in the future and 3bet AJo, KQo + instead, ATo seems to be getting thin for value OOP
 
acky100

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I always think about betting the turn big and getting it done in one street, i just dont think he ever folds Qx to one street here no matter the size so i like to set up a horrible river spot for him.
 
youregoodmate

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3 handed I think villain will call a 3 bet lighter, so I think the value isnt really thin. I understand why a flat is much better though.
 
acky100

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i dont think villain plays differently 3 handed really table just started other people were sitting in, i figured he was just a fish calling 3bets with the same range everywhere , big cards, suited cards etc, yeah ill flat this hand from now on but im definitely 3betting AJo a lot and anything big and more connected/suited like 100%
 
acky100

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Yeah, i might not play it the same again (just because i wish i knew more about the fish) but im convinced i get enough folds on my river bet to make it +EV, he can fold a decent number of draws, QT,QJ, 88-JJ that might of peeled lighter on the turn enough of the time, but its not like super fist pump shove for sure
 
John A

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Quick summary: When you start making assumptions without reads it usually doesn't turn out well. So given the lack of information I'd prefer barreling the turn bigger and getting Qx and under pairs to fold out. I think tripling w/o good info on average is spew. You are basically hoping.

Pre-flop is debatable. I'd prefer calling and making sure I keep the fish in if I don't have a read on what hes 3-bet calling range might be.
 
acky100

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Quick summary: When you start making assumptions without reads it usually doesn't turn out well. So given the lack of information I'd prefer barreling the turn bigger and getting Qx and under pairs to fold out. I think tripling w/o good info on average is spew. You are basically hoping.

Pre-flop is debatable. I'd prefer calling and making sure I keep the fish in if I don't have a read on what hes 3-bet calling range might be.

yeah the bold bit is what im not happy with. Actually think a turn bet is semi reasonable but dont really like it either unless we know how fishy he is, if hes really fishy i think its just a bet 1 or bet 3 spot, i can see a turn bet being good when he doesnt have a lot of Qx to outweigh the few middling pp's he might fold (cause i think there is no way he folds Qx to one bet). Still, i dont think my line was the nut worst spew like everyone is making out, he does fold a lot of hands to that river bet so if its anywhere near spew, its borderline spew/borderline fine
 
WVHillbilly

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Also prefer calling pre.

I think I'd like the river better if there wasn't a missed draw for him to "put you on" and hero call the river with all his 2nd pair+ hands.
 
acky100

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Just put this through flopzilla roughly, feeling better about it. Yeah theres still the question of will he fold Qx and i think the way i played it in a vacuum the answer is yes (more than not i think im getting folds in these spots from Qx) I thought this was the main criteria to it being successful or not and when he gets to the turn he has sooo many combo's of Qx and worse pairs and missed draws that its looking like i was right - if i think he can fold Qx here its +EV. miles away from spew atleast.
 
Beanfacekilla

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Just put this through flopzilla roughly, feeling better about it. Yeah theres still the question of will he fold Qx and i think the way i played it in a vacuum the answer is yes (more than not i think im getting folds in these spots from Qx) I thought this was the main criteria to it being successful or not and when he gets to the turn he has sooo many combo's of Qx and worse pairs and missed draws that its looking like i was right - if i think he can fold Qx here its +EV. miles away from spew atleast.


I agree somewhat. But if you are going to try and take down pots with ace high, why attempt it OOP? You should be able to take down other pots in position, right? Why did you choose this spot in particular? According to your comments, there are going to be other spots to take down pots. Why choose this spot, OOP?

And furthermore, by trying to say Q-x may fold here, range is x-x, this is simply not an exact science. It is a calculated risk. You are making an assumption based on an educated mindset. And you are making it even more of a crapshoot by being OOP. Many people play poker, and don't really know the theory like you.

And you might have been taking pots down over and over with no showdown, due to your aggression. Maybe that in itself will get villain to look you up light.
 
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