$100 NLHE 6-max: Set on rivered flush

ChuckTs

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$100 NL HE 6-max: Set on rivered flush

Villain's like 45/7, floats lots and bets when checked to lots. When he calls turn I put him on a mix of draws and made hands. River sucks, and I'm lost...

party poker, $0.50/$1 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 5 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker

SB: $181.82 (181.8 bb)
Hero (BB): $232.64 (232.6 bb)
MP1: $45.01 (45 bb)
MP2: $159.23 (159.2 bb)
CO: $47.46 (47.5 bb)

Pre-Flop: Hero is BB with 2 2
MP1 folds, MP2 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $5.50, MP2 calls $4.50

Flop: ($11.50) 9 2 8 (2 players)
Hero bets $9, MP2 calls $9

Turn: ($29.50) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $15, Hero raises to $55, MP2 snapcalls $40

River: ($139.50) A (2 players)
Hero ...

($90 left)

jam? ch-c? ch-f?

bigger turn sizing?
 
PattyR

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hmmm, well since you made a big raise maybe he put you on JJ QQ or even KK and maybe he had an ace rag? although i find this very unlikely because he snapcalled your 40 raise although if he had A9 or A8 than perhaps he would have thought his TPTK was golden.

he could have been on a draw and he could have even had 2 pair with 89 as his hole cards..... how did this hand end up?

o btw i definately would have bet outright, if you check it would show you obviously dont have a flush and possibly give him the idea to shove or raise knowing your afraid of the flush
 
WVHillbilly

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I think you just have to go ahead and bet to put him in here.

He's got ~$90 left, so I really don't think you can fold and he certainly can call with worse.
 
S93

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I check/call here. If villain likes betting when checked to i say let him, yeah it will suck when/if he checks back with A9 or 89 but if his range is something like A8,A9,flushes,89,JT,76 and given you read he is betting almost 100% of that range but if u jam he is folding his straight draws.
Does kinda suck that we allready c/r in this hand since that might make him more inclined to check back...

I might be way off but yeah i C/C here and expect to be good alot of the times against a 45/7.

Oh and i dont mind the turn size since it sets us up well to shove the river, witch i asume was the plan on any non heart river?
 
vanquish

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i hate checking because he checks behind a ton of hands we beat here, that he might call a bet with
 
OzExorcist

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I actually don't think Ah on the river is that bad a card for you because it cuts the number of flush hands the villain could be holding down a lot. Ax sooted I can see limp-calling preflop then continuing on that board - paint-rag sooted not so much so really it's only things like medium heart connectors/gappers that are plausible for the flush here.

And it's a perfect card if villain's been playing something like A9 or A8.

With $90 effective behind I just get it in, figuring to get called by two pair (and maybe even one pair) a fair bit. Villain probably folds a fair chunk of the time too, but I like that better than having him just check behind. Only thing I'm really worried about if we lead the river is set over set.

Turn bet sizing looks fine to me, BTW. Any less and we're giving too good a price to draws, any more and we probably don't get any worse hands giving us action.
 
c9h13no3

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I shove, but I'm not dancing whilst I do it. I prolly crank up the turn raise a hair bigger, so he has about half pot behind on the river. My game plan with sets when I'm not 250bb's deep is to get good & committed.

Check/calling makes me vomit in my mouth a little.
 
blankoblanco

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c/c seems a little silly, it only works against like missed OESDs (and that's if he's bad enough to always call with them on the turn), and just really weird stuff he dark-tunnels with because he likes to bet

against some players you could c/f here, but given the description this guy is probably a bit too likely to bet with something odd that you beat. but still not likely enough to make a c/c good, especially since he'll call a bet with a lot of those hands himself anyway

i haate spots like this but i just shove and hope he calls with two pair or hero calls with something goofy
 
Deco

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I'd pot the turn raise.
The river I genuinely have no idea.
 
tenbob

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Villain's like 45/7, floats lots and bets when checked to lots. When he calls turn I put him on a mix of draws and made hands.

Kinda like why I like C/C, especially against idiots like this that will be prepared to bluff with whiffed draws and second best hands lots.

Jamming it is probably much safer though :)
 
ChuckTs

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well in general with someone like this I'd expect him to bet when checked to when we show weakness. Here we made a pretty solid turn check-raise showing a ton of strength, and in his eyes the flush could be just as scary for his 9T or whatever, which will of course call somewhat often when we jam.

Either way I think our turn raise was big enough that we charged him properly for his draws (ie it's not a huge mistake if any at all to pay off a flush here), although we could have squeezed more out of him on the turn since he doesn't give a shit about odds, but I think the issue is whether or not he bets more hands when checked to than he calls when we jam...
 
F Paulsson

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wow, I misread the board and thought we had an unimproved pair of deuces and was wondering what the hell was wrong with everybody.

You can't really worry about a flush. I mean, you can - it's definitely a part of his range - but I'm in complete and total value mode on this river and my sole concern is how I get the most money in the pot. Shoving might be it. Betting half pot and hoping to get looked up by K9 is another. Checking and hoping to induce bluffs from JT is a third.

If you think his calling range is really wide (I mean, like calling a river bet with 87o-wide) then betting smallish to get calls from those hands and folding to a shove is probably best. Calling river raises without the nuts is usually a mistake, and unless he's a compulsive bluffer that probably goes for this guy, too.

The only line I can't stomach is check/folding. You can't hand him the rope to bluff with and then walk away while he's busy tying it around his neck.
 
F Paulsson

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... and before I get crap about it, I realize that we only have $90 left and if we bet $35 of those and fold to a shove, we're folding getting a gazillion-to-one with a set. But, seriously, odds be damned (you'll probably never hear me say that again, and you certainly haven't before) some players will abso-posilutely-****ing never raise this river without a flush. Especially not if they realize they have absolutely no fold equity.

Whether or not this player is one of them is another matter. But I figured I'd pre-empt the "omg" crowd.

(I'm in a bad mood)

/FP
 
eagle jim

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Someone once told me in a coaching session when I checked the action on the turn when 3 to a flush showed on the board not the fear the flush. I don't put him on a flush here. I think you value bet this...would he still not be in the hand with A9, A8, 89, TT, JJ etc. I think I value bet this, it is thin but I think we are good here a lot of the time. And FP cheer up.....tomorrow is another day......and pokering is goot!!
 
Deco

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Either way I think our turn raise was big enough that we charged him properly for his draws

We did indeed I just favour a pot bet as it would make this river decision so much easier.
If we had potted to $75 we would have $70 behind to win a $180 pot and suddenly we don't have a hard decision on our hands :p
 
vanquish

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wow, I misread the board and thought we had an unimproved pair of deuces and was wondering what the hell was wrong with everybody.

you don't play an unimproved underpair the same way?
 
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