$100 NLHE 6-max: Get raised on river with bottom fullhouse, should I 3-bet?

ABorges

ABorges

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$100 NL HE 6-max: Get raised on river with bottom fullhouse, should I 3-bet?

I'm probably just calling if I have any amount of respect for the player, but this one in particular was playing 66/5/1 over 40 or so hands, flatting raises with K4o and limping pretty much every chance he got. Super small sample but it was obvious what kind of player he was. He had also slowplayed flopped trips a few hands before. You guys think there are enough 9x hands or even naked aces in his range that make shoving better than calling? He has $37 more after raising.


Stacks:
* UTG with $69.45
* MP with $100.00
* BTN with $314.95
* SB with $134.20
* BB with $100.00

hand.pl


hand.pl

Blinds: $0.00/$0.00
Site: pokerstars
* * Dealt to BB:6♦ 6♣
* * Sklansky group 6
Preflop:
* * UTG calls [$1]
* * MP calls [$1] BTN calls [$1]
* * SB calls [$0.50] Hero: checks
* * Potsize: $5
Flop: 9♥ Q♣ 9♠
* * SB: checks Hero: checks
* * UTG: checks
* * MP: checks BTN: checks
* * Potsize: $5
Turn: 6♠
* * SB: checks Hero bets [$3.50]
* * UTG calls [$3.50]
* * 3 players folded.
* * Total folds this street: 3
* * Potsize: $12
River: A♥ Hero bets [$10]
* * UTG raises $18 to $28
 
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WossaPotOddz

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Yeah I'm putting him all in here every day of the week. If he's calling raises with K4o then you can assume he's limping a mixture of shite 9's all the way down to 94-95. If he's not a retard he knows he's gotta have a 9 to do this and you're only losing to A9 and Q9 in that range, if he has that then meh but T9 J9 K9 89 79 59 49 39 and maybe maybe AQ but it's doubtful and he certainly wont call the shove.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Shove it in & fist-pump.
 
ImolAyrton

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Raise him all in.. he probably has a lone 9
 
Implied Odds3

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Its probably a 9 that hasn't filled up. Just put him all in, pretty sure you have him.
 
Marklar

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He's got any suited 9 here and is probably hoping that you have AQ. Gotta shove it here. His range is so wide there's no way you can put him on a better full house.
 
Deltafrost

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Yeah I'm putting him all in here every day of the week. If he's calling raises with K4o then you can assume he's limping a mixture of shite 9's all the way down to 94-95. If he's not a retard he knows he's gotta have a 9 to do this and you're only losing to A9 and Q9 in that range, if he has that then meh but T9 J9 K9 89 79 59 49 39 and maybe maybe AQ but it's doubtful and he certainly wont call the shove.

Raise him all in.. he probably has a lone 9

In this situation u have hit your best possible hand. If u don't put him all in due to believing he has bigger house the you should havenever got involved in the hand to begin with.

Its probably a 9 that hasn't filled up. Just put him all in, pretty sure you have him.

He's got any suited 9 here and is probably hoping that you have AQ. Gotta shove it here. His range is so wide there's no way you can put him on a better full house.

Do any of you actually have a reason for what your saying? not that your wrong but you dont really have a big enough history as solid posters to just give one line answers.

how about a little reasoning for your answers?
 
Marklar

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okay.... my reasoning is for a person with a 66% VPIP he plays any two suited cards. There are far more suited 9s than there are better full houses. Plus he's got K9o J9o T9o, etc in that range as well.

Pokerstove your hand against villains range and you have 96% equity on the river.
 
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WossaPotOddz

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Do any of you actually have a reason for what your saying? not that your wrong but you dont really have a big enough history as solid posters to just give one line answers.

how about a little reasoning for your answers?

I really don't understand how I could explain my analysis of this hand any more simply or concisively.
 
Deltafrost

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I really don't understand how I could explain my analysis of this hand any more simply or concisively.

i didnt mean to quote yours. you actually had, however small amount, of reasoning. the others did not.
 
ABorges

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Anyway I pushed and he had Q9. Wasn't sure if he'd do this with just trips but whatever, more power to him. He left afterwards =(
 
Deco

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Based on the guys stats this is the worlds easiest shove:p

Shame you got coolered, the way he ran after must have really stung:rolleyes:
 
ItsMe

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I think this is a case that the only hand that will call your re-raise all-in is a full house too. These loose players confuse your thinking with their preflop play but the good ones will only risk their stack on the river if they are very strong.
 
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WossaPotOddz

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I love it when people wait until after the results are given before they pitch in. You played the hand perfectly, it doesn't matter that he had Q9 because more than 50% of the time you would have taken the pot.
 
ItsMe

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I love it when people wait until after the results are given before they pitch in. You played the hand perfectly, it doesn't matter that he had Q9 because more than 50% of the time you would have taken the pot.

I guess that was aimed at me. I'll try to write my comments faster next time. You say the hand was played perfectly. In that case I'm just wondering what hand you think the villain has that re-raises that board on the river and our hero beats?
 
ItsMe

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I guess that was aimed at me. I'll try to write my comments faster next time. You say the hand was played perfectly. In that case I'm just wondering what hand you think the villain has that re-raises that board on the river and our hero beats?

I'd like to correct this slightly to explain my reasoning. Firstly, let me say I'd call his re-raise but would not put him all-in. By putting him all-in how much more would I hope to get? If he is weak with ace rag or any combination of half hits or bluffing the ace then he doesn't call my all-in unless he is loose as a goose. If he is strong from the flop then he plays the hand exactly the same way that he has, calling bets and then re-raising the river when the pot's big. Only if this is the case does he call the allin.
 
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WossaPotOddz

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Villain only has to call $37~ into $106~ and with a VPIP or 66..........not shoving that river is daft. Plus hero got a free flop from the big blind, villain will rationalise hero has baby trips.
 
F Paulsson

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I wouldn't fault anyone for shoving the river but I think it's important to remember that river raises with less than near-nut hands are rare. Especially for a 65/5 type player. I'd be very, very surprised if this was EVER a naked ace or even two pair. And far from every player would even raise a hand like T9 on this river.

On a related note, follow me on this piece of logic: Slowplaying is a "trick." Someone who slowplays isn't a complete beginner because absolute beginners don't realize that it's even an option. They don't think one street ahead, "if I just call now, he will probably bet again on the river and I can raise him then." This guy apparently did or he rivered something that improved his hand enough that he felt comfortable raising. That brings me back to the point that very few people will look at AJ on this river and think it's worthy of raising, so if the river improved him it could maybe maybe be AQ. But again, raising AQ on the river isn't really something 65/5 players do generally speaking.

So, someone who slowplays can think one street ahead, at least occasionally. So unless he's a complete peanut who thinks that AQ is good enough to raise on the river, he looked at the turn and decided his raise could wait. Would he wait with T9? With a flushdraw and a straight draw on the table? Possibly. But I'd argue that it's a little bit rare for that to happen.

But, like I said, I wouldn't fault anyone for shoving, but just remember that river raises from fish generally mean the nuts or very close to it.
 
BelgoSuisse

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+1 to everything FP said as usual.

Also, pretty sure this should be a standard raise preflop.

Edit: wow, this thread is 25 days old...
 
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WossaPotOddz

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Good point FP. You make good posts.
 
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